Never forget. Some need a reminder. Powerful video clip

This is a logical falsehood.

Appeal to pity = appeal to emotion

Appeal to emotion != appeal to pity

Xena wrote:

panzade wrote:

The families of the survivors and the victims have begged the candidates not to use images of 9/11 to further their agendas.
A trip to the hearing center for you Xena.

When you refer the the "9-11" families, you don't know what your talking about. Just because a few "NJ girls" and some others are offened, doesn't mean they speak for all the families. Just get that straight..

http://911familiesforamerica.org/

Still have to let the others do the thinking for you. Now, you are invoking 9-11 for political purposes, way to fall to the utterly disgustingly low. A move to pond scum would be a step up int the evolutionary process of your posts.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Oh god! Not that thing again.

I do remember, and I find that drivel an absolute insult both to me and to the people who died.

I find this reaction puzzling.

In what way is the message stupid or senseless?

Why do you feel insulted by it, and more importantly why do you think it insults the people who died?

because it is politcal rhetoric that implies only those behind pres bush know how to be patriotic americans...and if you can't see that...then you are more lost than i thought.

Did you stop reading after those two sentences, Finn d'Abuzz, you quoted from dlowan's post?

Or what are you trying to do NOW???

saw the filth behind the rhetoric? i'm confused... I have mentioned before in this thread that I do not support the war or President Bush generally. So if i was moved in the way the creator intended, where am I on your spectrum? Do I belong to the group that spouts the rhetoric? Or have I been befuddled? I have an idea for you: Instead of assuming someone's motives....ASK! Acting on emotions that you created as a kneejerk reaction to something that the original poster never mentioned is just...sad.

Craven de Kere wrote:

This is a logical falsehood.

Appeal to pity = appeal to emotion

Appeal to emotion != appeal to pity

Nope. Sorry. Those are not equal. Let me explain by example.

All dogs are animals, but not all animals are dogs. Therefore animals do not equal dogs.

One is a subset of the other. A subset does not equal a superset.

Just as some animals are dogs, some appeals to emotion are appeals to pity. That does not make them equal.

You are quite right. I erred in using "equal" to describe what I had clearly wanted to be a one-way relationship.

Craven de Kere wrote:

You are quite right. I erred in using "equal" to describe what I had clearly wanted to be a one-way relationship.

And I don't know why I got so hung up on it. Oh well.

The absurd notion that this isn't a cheap appeal to pity argument (see Argumentum ad misericordiam) with political motivation is belied by the fact that the author states said motivation explicitly.

The author states the reason for "Blood of Heroes" and exposes a political motivation that many here suspected and that others tried to imagine was not there.

Here are some relevant excerpts from the author's politically motivated rant.

Quote:

Why is the "Blood of Heroes" web site here?

In October of 2002, after hearing all the nay-sayers whining about going to war to fight against terrorism, (and to protect our interests and defend our allies) I wondered; how exactly do we defend and maintain our freedom then? If not by the violent destruction of those who would threaten us, then by what means? There comes a time when even peace loving people have to fight.

With all the invective about ?blood for oil?, we are not only justified in going to war ? we were obligated to do it - and to do it in every place on this earth that ever poses a threat to the American way of life. It isn't blood for oil. It's blood for freedom - the blood of our heroes. We owe it to them... and we owe it to our children. Period.

If you are not willing to do everything in your power to defend this Great Nation, even taking up arms if it is necessary, then who will? If you will not defend America, that is your choice - but sit in silence and do not criticize those brave and valiant individuals who have the sense of duty, the measure of courage and the determination of heart to protect America... and, I might add, your cowardly soul.

I hope you will take a few moments to reflect on what we have and who paid for it. Look up and thank God that you live free in a nation that is blessed by Him and defended by heroes.

Romans 5:8,9

May God continue to bless America and all who defend her.

Fly the flag.

Through phrases like "blood for oil" it is clear that the author is not only using the emotional appeal in a call to general militarism but specifically making a case for the war in Iraq.

These arguments are idiotic, and I feel the same way about them as I do when I criticized liberal and conservative debate by way of gore about Iraq.

"ASK"ing... what are the motives behind your choice of avatar, bashtoreth?
A snubnosed pistol being pointed by a clenched fist with crimson-painted fingernails...?

Images and icons are symbols, conveying meaning... so I ask: what is the meaning/message you intend to convey?

On the surface, it appears to be a message of aggression and hostility... whatever your intent.

willow--

I think the lesson here for all of us is: Thinking people can disagree. I agree with you that the situation in Iraq right now is moronic. (Here I go making assumptions. I don't know that you actually stated that.) But I also agree with those who liked the clip. I do believe that we must remind ourselves often of situations we do not want to repeat. Although we don't really forget, we also don't really keep <b>focused</b> as we should sometimes....

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Why do you feel insulted by it, and more importantly why do you think it insults the people who died?

Because their deaths, and the acts that led to their deaths, are used to further a political agenda that is completely separate from that horrendous tragedy. The event of 9/11 address us as a nation and more broadly has a culture. It is not the possession of a single political party or political point of view.

Bashtoreth - I would be interested in knowing if you have read this post, when we come to considering what was intended in making the piece.

The clip is supposed to remind us that we need to support our troops and the reason why they are fighting.