Never forget. Some need a reminder. Powerful video clip

Good luck with the remedy-ing, panz.

Good distinction, Joe.

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panzade wrote:

I've been circling this road kill thread like a turkey buzzard but I can't find any sustenance. Its title is a cloaking device used by warmongers to rally the troops.
Yeah, like I need a reminder:

That the 10,000 to 15,000 civilian casualties in Iraq are somehow not innocent victims in comparison to the 3,000 innocent victims of 9/11. Oh alright, I'll grant you there's 5,000 insurgents mixed up in that mountain of bodies and body parts who deserved to be exterminated. When will we have exacted revenge? I don't know...there's ratio rules to exacting revenge for a sneak attack on our citizens.

That if Iraqui citizens posted videos of the horror and carnage they're subjected to...well...that's just the price they have to pay for democracy and Hussein in a cell...besides, they are posting videos...of beheadings....onward Christian soldiers..

Like I need a reminder that if we'd kept our eyes on the prize in Afghanistan and other terrorist hotspots we'd have done something concrete to secure our borders and citizens all over the world.

I shant post on a political thread again ...perhaps til way past the election. What's the point? There's no exchange anymore...it's down to cut and paste for both sides...and one way hearing obstructions.

Yeah, this thread was the catalyst. I'm firmly in the get him out camp. The missus is a registered Republican...that's being remedied post haste.

I remember...that's the problem.

Panzade, I'd hate to see you leave. You have a unique perspective that would be missed.

However, I believe that the 15-20,000 innocents Iraqi's could very easily also be 15-100,000 Americans if even ONE WMD is brought into our country and used.

I am all for the over-zealous defense of this nation. 3 years have gone by since we were attacked by an enemy that has no home yet has a global reach. We need to be reminded every day what it is that we are fighting. Everytime I look at my sons and daughters faces I hope they will be able to grow up and enjoy their life as much as I have because someone stood up and defended our way of life. Defended our country. I thank them and I am most grateful that they do what they do.

It is unfortunate that war is so destructive to human life. It is a terrible event, but when there is no alternative, then it's best to do what we have done. I am saddened by the huge divide that this nation has seen and at the seeming loss of global respect, but if that is what it takes to destroy the global evil of terrorism, then so be it. We can not allow ourselves to go back to the times that allowed an event like 9-11 occur.. We must remain vigilant and bring the war to them. There is no negotiating with terrorists.

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There's no reasoning with them, either.

They embrace a culture of violence and Death.

But the Terrorists are NOT all Islamic, or Arab.

Arrogant, egocentric, self-righteous, cruel, destructive... but they wear many different hats... and uniforms.

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McG, I get where you're coming from. One thing I always wonder though when I hear someone say we are taking the fight to the terrorists. Didn't we really just invite the terrorists to someone else's house? Didn't we really just take a place where terrorism had not been, bomb the crap out of it, and draw the terrorists there? I can see taking it to Afghanistan -- even though I was originally against it. But taking it to Iraq just doesn't cut it for me.

I realize this is the fundamental divide between people who believe that Iraq is part of the fight against terrorism and those who do not.

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Does it concern you that you actually wish for an OVER-zealous defence, McG?

It should. That is what is frightening about the US to a lot of people. All that power - and seemingly a lot of support for OVER-zealous "defence".

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dlowan wrote:

Does it concern you that you actually wish for an OVER-zealous defence, McG?

It should. That is what is frightening about the US to a lot of people. All that power - and seemingly a lot of support for OVER-zealous "defence".

Over Zealous defense...big cars...tough talk...it's how they're raised....

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

dlowan wrote:
Does it concern you that you actually wish for an OVER-zealous defence, McG?

It should. That is what is frightening about the US to a lot of people. All that power - and seemingly a lot of support for OVER-zealous "defence".

Over Zealous defense...big cars...tough talk...it's how they're raised....

Only those of us that graduated and found jobs.

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Yes, yes - hurled insults aside - what of the "over-zealous" thing?

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What of it? I would rather our country be over-protected than under-protected. How do you feel about that?

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Standard fascist perspective, Mc G.

Those who would trade their liberty for the illusion of security deserve neither.

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Can't I just trade YOUR liberty for the reality of security?

This weird insecurity that liberals have should disturb you. You are so afraid that you might have to show an ID to "the man" that you would rather have terrorists rape your daughter and kill your dog, or visa-versa depending on your beliefs.

No liberties have been lost, let me repeat that NO LIBERTIES HAVE BEEN LOST. Yet the continuous high pitched whine drones on and on and on and on and on...

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Please excuse me if I'm repeating what others may have already written in response to the video clip at the start of this thread. I have read some, not, all of what's been said.

It is absolutely abhorrent that innocent people, just going about their daily business in NYC, were killed on 9/11. But what concerns me is that the lives of those people appear (to some here) to have more value than the lost lives of equally innocent Iraqi civilians, apparently in response to 9/11. The attack on Iraq was perpetrated by the most powerful nation in the world, using some of the most powerful & destructive weapons in existence. The given reasons for this attack (on Iraq) have changed constantly & conveniently to suit the changed needs & circumstances of the US government ... WMDs, "liberating" Iraqis from Saddam's dictatorship, introducing democracy .. etc. Apparently the purpose this obscene act of aggression was to "fight terrorism" & to "make the world safe for democracy". Too bad that those now dead, or still suffering Iraqis had nothing to do with the attack on NYC. Too bad that the world is now a far more dangerous place.

So when I look at statements like those in the video all I feel disgust for the US government who used the death of those innocent citizens of NYC as an excuse to pursue their own despicable agenda. I feel grief at the loss of life of those innocent people in NYC. I feel for their families. But I feel indignation & outrage at the thousands of innocents killed in Iraq because of some misguided "grand plan" of the US government. I wish they'd considered the lives of those Iraqis to be just as just as precious as the lives of US citizens, not just the collateral of war. Shame! I will never forget the Iraqi deaths, either. And I don't need a reminder. The horror goes on & on ....

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McGentrix wrote:

What of it? I would rather our country be over-protected than under-protected. How do you feel about that?

You mentioned over-zealous - let us stick to that.

What, exactly, do you mean?

Please define your meaning.

A hint of a thought that a country might mean yours harm?

Something a little more substantial?

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Quote:

3 years have gone by since we were attacked by an enemy that has no home yet has a global reach.

Yes, you and your neoconservative brethren have used that argument tirelessly, but when asked the last time such a horrible attack was made on U.S. soil, the answers are much more ellusive for your conservatives.

Because the last attack of such magnitude was Pearl Harbor, which happened over 60 years ago.

What makes you possibly think that the war in Iraq is keeping us safe? That is the ultimate fallicy in your opinion, McGentrix, for it is a presumptious one at that.

You'd rather act pre-emptively, but what if we are wrong, as we are currently stuck in this Iraqi quagmire?

How is it that we are taking the war to the terrorists when the terrorists are spread out ALL OVER THE WORLD?

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willow_tl wrote:

I have been told by someone i respect that my fighting statement was not necessary and obviously not taken how it was meant..it was meant tongue in cheek ..because i disagree with the war, with our actions there, and how our president has handled the iraqi situation i am labled unpatriotic and unamerican...and told i have forgotten 9/11..and that feels like a personal attack and "them be fighting" words :wink: and I agree that i take things a little too personal ..but am amazed that those that spew ugliness are always aghast when they get it back..the video is obviously used to generate emotions and if it is not the emotion you expect...whoops...Did you not expect there would be negative reactions to your posting? But my roommate has pointed out to me that neither one of us are going to change each others mind so i am not sure if anything can really be settled. You will keep thinking i am an unpatriotic "ignorant" american and I will continue to think that you will never understand that the labels you place on me hurt. You can release your breath now :wink: ....Tammie

What do you mean by "those that spew ugliness are always aghast when the get it back? The video does generate emotions, but who was the one who spewed ugliness first? Did I ever accuse you of being unpatriotic? I disagree with you about the war and when I post facts regarding what the Democrats have said about the threat of Saddam it is disregarded. If your going to say this is all made up in Texas, you are being ignorant to the facts.

I shouldn't have to go back and post the quotes all over again. You don't want to acknowledge the fact that the Democrats were the ones over the years have been the ones crying about the threat of Saddam, and then other people post stuff Bush said..

The hate for Bush regarding the war in Iraq is the only thing unjust.. This is what I don't understand. If any of you have read my posts you would know I am not a republican. Any time you want to hurl insults, I find you can't help yourself making the "republican" connection..

I find the Democrats to be hypocrites regarding Iraq due to the fact that I voted for Clinton and then Gore. I know what they said about Saddam then and am disgusted that they would turn it around and blame Bush for everything now.. Is this too hard for you Bush haters to understand? It couldn't be possible that someone who voted Democrat to realize the underhanded tactics of the party and be disgusted with it? It seems too much for some to comprehend.

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dlowan wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
What of it? I would rather our country be over-protected than under-protected. How do you feel about that?

You mentioned over-zealous - let us stick to that.

What, exactly, do you mean?

Please define your meaning.

A hint of a thought that a country might mean yours harm?

Something a little more substantial?

I mean that we not show just zeal (Enthusiastic devotion to a cause, ideal, or goal and tireless diligence in its furtherance.), but we should be OVER-zealous. The defense of our nation should be the A#1 cause, the biggest issue, what people are talking about. It should be THE thing that decides this election. Who will best defend this nation?

NO single nation threatens the US, that would be suicide. It's the nebulous organizations like Al Qaeda that threatens us. We threaten the nations that would support, harbor, or arm those groups. Like Iraq.

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Quote:

I voted for Clinton and then Gore.

Xena

Could you please elucidate why you cast these two votes.

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Joe R--I love that rabid partisans can only spout about plagiarism and propaganda. The plagiarism was, I am sure, unintended. As for the propaganda, it was DEMOCRAT propaganda, thus the quotes. It can't be Republican propaganda if it came directly from the mouth of a Democrat.

By the way, I am NOT a Republican; nor am I a Democrat--just someone tired of <b>actual</b> propaganda.

Magus--I agree with your post about liberty. Security is nothing without freedom.

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McGentrix wrote:

dlowan wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
What of it? I would rather our country be over-protected than under-protected. How do you feel about that?

You mentioned over-zealous - let us stick to that.

What, exactly, do you mean?

Please define your meaning.

A hint of a thought that a country might mean yours harm?

Something a little more substantial?

I mean that we not show just zeal (Enthusiastic devotion to a cause, ideal, or goal and tireless diligence in its furtherance.), but we should be OVER-zealous. The defense of our nation should be the A#1 cause, the biggest issue, what people are talking about. It should be THE thing that decides this election. Who will best defend this nation?

NO single nation threatens the US, that would be suicide. It's the nebulous organizations like Al Qaeda that threatens us. We threaten the nations that would support, harbor, or arm those groups. Like Iraq.

I agree with you in principle, but it gets a little hairier when we get down to practice. In other words I have no clue what the best policy is. I'm just an ignorant citizen. I should just leave it to the people who know what they are doing.... Can anyone point me in the right direction? LOL

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blatham wrote:

Quote:
I voted for Clinton and then Gore.

Xena

Could you please elucidate why you cast these two votes.

Butterfly ballots....

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Never forget. Some need a reminder. Powerful video clip

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