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The continued reference to Mary Cheney by the Dems

 
 
princesspupule
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 08:50 pm
Nice punch, but here's the kicker, a quote from Karl Rove, no less. Laughing On when education can become too much of a good thing. It applies equally well to whether or not lesbians are god's children, or not :wink:
Quote:
"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans...
...unless they have too much education and vote Democratic,
which proves there can be too much of a good thing."
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 08:55 pm
From the One-Eyed Jack article:

"Imagine if President Bush had said something like that about a Democrat's daughter, to explain a Democrat's support for same-sex marriage."

I really, really, really believe the response would have been "Yeah, of course I support gay marriage because my daughter is a lesbian. It's taught me this, this and this. What's the big deal?" I really, really, really believe it would have been more of a "Duh" moment since the Democratic party is more inclusive to begin with.

There hasn't been any outcry from Gephart, whose daughter is also a lesbian. He hasn't shrunk from it or kept her hidden away.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:09 pm
Wow, folks! I had no idea that by pointing out Elizabeth's belief I'd touch such a nerve LOL. Squinney, are you saying Elizabeth is not inclusive if she believe's opposite of her husband?
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:22 pm
So Mrs. Edwards is allowed to think different... Just the President isn't, eh? Laughing

"...(64 percent) of voters viewed the Kerry remark as inappropriate. This includes half of all swing voters and four in 10 of Kerry's own supporters..."40% of Kerry's own supporters realize the remark was inappropriate. Idea How long will you guys pretend it's just purely republican spin? Laughing That's part of what compounded the problem if you ask me. Had everyone just groaned and said "awe damn"... the story would have died sooner. Certainly, this thread wouldn't have gone 30 pages without all the denial.

"...Right then, there was a groan among reporters covering the debate, the way you might groan if your favorite football team fumbled on the goal line..." I think we all know why this happened. Some won't admit it... but there is no alternative reason... Unless: Someone thinks this group of reporters were just lying in wait, on the outside chance John Kerry might mention her so they could "pretend that John Kerry's mention of Mary Cheney was somehow a cheap and tawdry trick" Laughing, as PDiddie suggests.

The jury is back in folks; the polls, the market and even the bookies have spoken. John Kerry dropped the ball… resulting in a step backwards after a debate that most of you thought he won. Now he's telling folks in Wisconsin there will be a draft, and Florida Seniors they'll lose their benefits if Bush is re-elected. He's underestimating the public; again, because neither constituency is that naïve. The more he lies, the worse he'll look. I think we're looking at the meltdown. His 15 minutes are just about up.

Oh, what the hell… Being the nice guy that I am, I'll throw ya'll one last glimmer of hope! It may not be too late for Kerry to steal the election! Yesterday I received options from not one but two post cards from "America Coming Together" (think RockTheVote), that will get me proxy votes at two different addresses Shocked… Now mind you, I live in a zip code that definitely leans towards Kerry and those of us in Hurricane Country can have our proxies forwarded, so; I would bet if a fellow were as dishonest as he was clever, he could probably get away with being counted at least twice! Cross your fingers Kerry fans… this may be your last hope. :wink:
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:28 pm
Is Florida signing up 13-year-olds to vote? New Mexico appaently is. Hey you can bribe a 13-year-old to vote for just about anything.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:37 pm
LOL FOX!!! Especially a 13-year-old BOY ...LOL!

Hey Bill....pretty funny stuff. (I think those post cards are from MTV...LOL)
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:40 pm
Oh! Something else I saw today...one of their slogans is "Vote or Die" LOL (I am not making this up)! Now that's what I call "inclusive" LOL


<I always thought Kerry kinda looks like an undertaker>

Smile
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:46 pm
I think I saw P. Diddie Combs (is that name right?) wearing a Vote or Die shirt. Laughing He's too cool. Cool Laughing
Quote:
Is Florida signing up 13-year-olds to vote?

No, but they're trying to insist our non-paper voting machines can't be hand counted in a re-count so they're unconstitutional. Rolling Eyes Cause, ya know, counting by hand is much more accurate than the computer tally. I'm starting to think a National ID, which I've always opposed in favor of "right to anonymity, really is the right way to go. Let it be our Drivers Liscense/PassPort/GreenCard/CreditCard/VotersRegistrationCard/Etc and be done with all this nonsense. Then we could simply log on and verify if and how we voted if we're concerned.
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:49 pm
Uh, OCCOM, I think voting is supposed to be anonymous.
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OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 09:57 pm
I only meant you could look up your own with your Password. :wink:

Look what I found:
http://www.gothamist.com/images/2004_07_citchange.jpg
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 10:03 pm
Cool
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Einherjar
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2004 10:22 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
I only meant you could look up your own with your Password. :wink:


Still, someone could break the password or force you to show them what you voted. I think it is a bad idea.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 04:46 am
Slowly, inch by inch by inch, he swallowed the whole idea of it being okay to have a religious nut (who doesn't listen to his own advisors if their information conflicts with what he believes in his gut) to be in charge of the free world

and it was hard to accept at first but he guessed it would be okay to have to carry that little card around so the authorities could tell who you are.

It didn't seem right at first when people were detained without charge for months and years, but he figured there must be a good reason for a Christian man like Ashcroft to do such things and, luckily, he stopped reading those publications which didn't support the party just in time so when they were closed for the investigation he didn't have a single copy of any of them laying around his house.

Where do you think these guys are leading you?

Joe
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 06:16 am
JustWonders wrote:
Wow, folks! I had no idea that by pointing out Elizabeth's belief I'd touch such a nerve LOL. Squinney, are you saying Elizabeth is not inclusive if she believe's opposite of her husband?


I have no idea where you got that Elizabeth Edwards said it was a preference. This is the only comment I can find that is attributed to her stance on homosexuality:

Elizabeth Edwards, the wife of vice presidential candidate John Edwards, said of Lynne Cheney in an interview Thursday with ABC Radio: "She's overreacted to this and treated it as if it's shameful to have this discussion. I think that's a very sad state of affairs. ... I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences. ... It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response."

And, if she did say that she believes it is a preference, doesn't that make my point that the democratic party is inclusive of different views?
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 07:16 am
Outrage That Rings False

By Hilary Rosen
Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A23

Nicolle Devenish, communications director for the Bush-Cheney campaign, said Thursday that John Kerry will pay a heavy political price for what he did. Lynne Cheney, the vice president's wife, said, "This is a bad man."

The crime? John Kerry in the final presidential debate suggested that we are all God's children and used Mary Cheney as an example of a healthy gay person loved by her family.


The response from the Cheneys and the Bush campaign has been blatantly political. In fact, it is they who are using Mary Cheney -- using her now to score points against Kerry and John Edwards over an issue on which they themselves are guilty of the wrongs that Kerry and Edwards are fighting against. Even after almost 30 years in Washington, I am surprised by the overwhelming hypocrisy and meanness of the Bush reelection campaign.

Let's review the facts. Before the election season, this administration opposed every initiative to offer equality for gay men and lesbians. Indeed, it has gone out of its way to be punitive, with such actions as the Office of Personnel Management's announcement that the federal government has no intention of honoring the Clinton administration's order to add sexual orientation to anti-discrimination rules in the federal government.

After the debate, the vice president said of John Kerry: "This is a man who will say anything and do anything to get elected." Many people thought the same thing about Dick Cheney and President Bush on Feb. 24. That was the day the president announced to the country that heterosexual marriages are in trouble because gay people might someday have such a right in a few states. The crisis was so dire that he implored Congress to pass a constitutional amendment to permanently take away any rights gay men and lesbians might have to equal access to government benefits of marriage.

The Republican leaderships in both houses of Congress brought this amendment to the floor. Anyone watching the debate would cringe at the dehumanizing and painful things said by Republican sponsors of the proposal about gay people.

All of the Cheneys have sat back as senators and members of Congress who stood up for their position against the constitutional amendment were attacked in campaigns across the country. In Texas, North Dakota, South Carolina, Oklahoma, North Carolina and elsewhere, Republican candidates are using the gay issue against Democrats who have done nothing more than vote to protect the notion of fairness and equality in our Constitution.

Where is the outrage of Dick and Lynne Cheney over this?

In August, at a town meeting, the vice president was asked to speak from the heart about gay marriage. He did. He said he was against the constitutional amendment. And he expressed love for his daughter. The country was impressed.

I think the record is pretty clear that fair-minded political leaders didn't talk publicly about Mary Cheney until her father did. All of a sudden it was clear to John Kerry and John Edwards that if the Bush campaign tried to attack them on the gay marriage issue, they should just respond by saying they had the same position on this issue as Dick Cheney. That is certainly the advice I gave them. How dare the president criticize Kerry, as he did again the other night, for taking the same position as Dick Cheney? And we know that anti-gay messages are being promoted in many districts around the country to get out the evangelical vote for President Bush on Election Day. The silent but admirable Mary Cheney has remained a loyal daughter and foot soldier in this homophobic campaign.

I feel sorry for her -- sorry that she seems to now be a pawn in this race. But the perpetrator is not Kerry. This issue is in the campaign because Bush sought political advantage by using it all year. This week's outrage rings so false it makes my ears hurt.

Source
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 07:48 am
Oh, I'm quite sure if one had the time or inclination they could find literally tons of missives mirroring Ms. Rosen's "outrage" claims.

Unfortunately for Kerry, as has been pointed out several times in this thread, the public isn't buying it.

Nice that she "feels sorry" for her though.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 08:17 am
So, where did Mrs. Edwards say it was preference/ choice?
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 09:51 am
The Lowest Blow

By WILLIAM SAFIRE

Published: October 18, 2004

Washington

The memoir about the Kerry-Edwards campaign that will be the best seller will reveal the debate rehearsal aimed at focusing national attention on the fact that Vice President Cheney has a daughter who is a lesbian.

That this twice-delivered low blow was deliberate is indisputable. The first shot was taken by John Edwards, seizing a moderator's opening to smarmily compliment the Cheneys for loving their openly gay daughter, Mary. The vice president thanked him and yielded the remaining 80 seconds of his time; obviously it was not a diversion he was willing to prolong.

Until that moment, only political junkies knew that a member of the Cheney family serving on the campaign staff was homosexual. The vice president, to show it was no secret or anything his family was ashamed of, had referred to it briefly twice this year, but the press - respecting family privacy - had properly not made it a big deal. The percentage of voters aware of Mary Cheney's sexual orientation was tiny.

But Edwards's answer in the vice-presidential debate raised that percentage. Because Cheney refused to react and the media did not see the spotlight on lesbianism as part of a political plan, the opening shot worked.

Emboldened, members of Kerry's debate preparation team made Mary Cheney's private life the centerpiece of their answer to the question, especially worrisome to them, about same-sex marriage. Kerry was prepped to insert her sexuality into his rehearsed answer: "If you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian. ..."

But in this second time around, the gratuitous insertion of Cheney's daughter into an answer slipping around a hot-button social issue revealed that it was part of a deliberate Kerry campaign strategy.

One purpose was to drive a wedge between the Republican running mates. President Bush supports a constitutional amendment limiting marriage to a union of a man and a woman; Cheney has long been on record favoring state option, but always adds that the president sets administration policy. That rare divergence of views is hardly embarrassing.

The sleazier purpose of the Kerry-Edwards spotlight on Mary Cheney is to confuse and dismay Bush supporters who believe that same-sex marriage is wrong, to suggest that Bush is as "soft on same-sex" as Kerry is, and thereby to reduce a Bush core constituency's eagerness to go to the polls.

The pro-Kerry columnist Margaret Carlson put her finger on it, finding that Kerry and Edwards "realize that discussing Mary Cheney is a no-lose proposition: It highlights the hypocrisy of the Bush-Cheney position to Democrats while simultaneously alerting evangelicals to the fact that the Cheneys have an actual gay person in their household whom they apparently aren't trying to convert or cure." (Italics mine.)

After the outspoken Lynne Cheney blasted this unsought intrusion of her daughter's private life as "a cheap and tawdry trick," the Kerry campaign hustled forward John Edwards's wife to charge that such motherly outrage "indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences."

Worse than insensitive, that shot was off message, peeling the veneer off the Kerry-Edwards justification for making Mary famous: their oleaginous claim that, gee, they were only complimenting Dick Cheney for his fatherly tolerance. The crusher to that pretense came when the Kerry campaign manager, Mary Beth Cahill, coolly announced that the Cheney daughter was "fair game."

Apparently the American public thinks otherwise about the campaigning children of candidates. When polls showed two-to-one disapproval of the calculated Kerry-Edwards abuse of the young woman's privacy, the Democratic strategists who concocted this base-suppressing dirty trick orchestrated a defense that it was Dick Cheney who "outed" his daughter months ago. They are advising Kerry that he would look weak or, worse, slyly manipulative were he to apologize for tagging the Cheneys with the word "lesbian" before 50 million viewers.

Kerry will, I hope, assert his essential decency by apologizing with sincerity. Other Republicans hope he will let his self-inflicted wound fester. They have in mind a TV spot using an old film clip of a Boston lawyer named Welch at a Congressional hearing, saying "Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

link
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 10:11 am
If you don't have a problem with her sexuality,

You shouldn't have a problem with anyone talking about it. Simple as that.

Bush and Co. have to walk a fine line, by actually supporting Cheney's daughter without coming out and saying that they accept gays and lesbians... gotta seem outraged and moderate without pissing off your ACTUAL base, the religious right who does NOT accept homosexuality....

Cycloptichorn
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Oct, 2004 10:24 am
Calling it a low blow does, in fact, suggest that it is an insult.
0 Replies
 
 

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