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The new Democratic party. What will it look like?

 
 
Frugal1
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2017 04:56 pm
Democrats & parking.

0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2017 10:22 pm
What do you think about Keith Ellison Stopping Lobbyist Donations to DNC—Tom Perez Will Not?


georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2017 11:33 pm
@reasoning logic,
I think "Lobbyists" will be narrowly defined so as not to diminish their contributions in any significant way. They can easily funnel the money through the various labor unions, as Democrats have done for many decades with money from questionable sources.
layman
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2017 11:40 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I think "Lobbyists" will be narrowly defined so as not to diminish their contributions in any significant way. They can easily funnel the money through the various labor unions, as Democrats have done for many decades with money from questionable sources.


But you talk as though labor unions are not "questionable sources," eh, George?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2017 11:55 pm
@georgeob1,
Some version of this for sure. They are not about to give up donation dollars.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 12:01 am
@layman,
layman wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

I think "Lobbyists" will be narrowly defined so as not to diminish their contributions in any significant way. They can easily funnel the money through the various labor unions, as Democrats have done for many decades with money from questionable sources.


But you talk as though labor unions are not "questionable sources," eh, George?

There indeed questionable, but they are not questioned by either the media or the Democrats. I have run a couple of companies with substantial union employment, involving both the building and metal trades.

The first casualy of unionization is the death of any sense of purpose or goals for the organization. Unions are parasites, but not intelligent ones., In nature intelligent parasites don't kill their hosts.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 01:23 am
@georgeob1,
Indeed. Many years ago I had a part-time job at a factory while attending college. There were probably, at the most, 50 employees and most of them were woman who worked on the assembly line.

One day the Teamsters arrived to attempt to unionize the workers. I wasn't around for the union's pitch, nor the response of the company but at some point a strike was launched. I arrived in the afternoon after classes and was greeted by a sight so cliche it was difficult to take seriously. While my fellow workers marched around in circle bearing signs, a swarthy little guy sat in a Cadillac, and two big swarthy goons stood outside of it. When the Plant Manager came outside and started taking photos of the strikers and the Union reps, right on cue, the goons grabbed his camera from him, smashed it on the ground and sent him sprawling after it.

When I tried to cross the line and pull into the parking lot, the goons approached me, but fortunately I was well liked by most of my fellow employees and they got between the goons and my car. They asked me not to cross the line and I told them I really needed the job and just like that I was allowed through with the goons yelling curses at me.

The strike lasted one day, but the Teamsters were able to unionize the plant and I became a Teamster too. They never did anything for us, which meant they couldn't kill the host, and I always suspected they had been paid off by the company while still collecting dues from all of us.

I had two more jobs where the workers were organized as Teamsters and again there was no notable benefit other than the honor of paying dues.

Eventually I got a white collar job, but once again I found a Union was trying to organize the workers. The company had about 7,500 employees countrywide and so it would have been a plum for the union (Not the Teamsters, but I can't recall which one). Based on my past experience, I wanted no part of a union and the company was making promises in order to keep us from voting for it so my vote against it was never in doubt. It did cause some bad feelings among a few of my fellow workers who thought joining a union would be of great benefit, but with one exception all the employees in our office who were in favor of the union, had never had full time jobs prior to graduating college and joining our company as trainees, and none had ever worked even part-time in a union shop. A couple of them were all gung ho about workers of the world uniting and at the time I was quite the lefty myself, but my experience told me that the ideological appeal of unions was hollow. None of the companies that were unionized, or where it had been attempted, after I was employed were such that the workers needed to organize under a union banner, and where the unions won, the benefits to the workers were negligible. It was harder to fire an employee who screwed up but that was of no value to those of us who had to carry the weight of the screw-up.

This all occurred in the early to mid 70's and even then the need for unions had long disappeared. The worst characters in all of my experiences with unions were the local reps who were supposed to hear and remedy our grievances and negotiate better deals for us. What a joke. Whether or not they had been paid off by the companies, they were useless parasites.

I'm sure there are workers who benefited greatly from their Unions and as a result eventually found themselves out of work due to the financial disasters caused by management always making concessions to prevent or end strikes. Private sector union membership is way below what it was in its hey day because companies got smart and offered their employees many of the benefits unions would promise them, and because a plethora of State and federal employment laws provide workers with protection from predatory practices any company might foolishly attempt. Law firms specializing in Employment Law and Class Actions replaced Unions as the workers' champion.

They still have the power a great deal of money can provide and their involvement in the public sector has grown. This is where they cause the most damage, because if private company management made too many costly concessions to unions, government "management" gave them the keys to the treasury. Why wouldn't they? The unions have been funding their election campaigns for many decades.

Liberals often accuse the GOP and Corporate America of trying to break the backs of unions as if it was a crime against humanity. They certainly are not friends of Unions and why would they be? Union money goes to Democrats. Always has and always will. If Unions still served workers in the way they did when they first came upon the scene, then it might be a dastardly deed to break their backs, but they don't. There are millions of workers who have jobs with companies that have not been unionized and they are all doing just fine. They're not treated like indentured servants, and if they were, the unions would be successful in their efforts to organize.

Private sector unions have been largely broken, and it's high time the same happens in the public sector.
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 01:41 am
Good luck if you're a teamster member and hope to receive pension benefits after paying in for years, eh? That pension money was "invested" in making "loans" to mobsters who will never repay them.
gungasnake
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 04:45 am
One of the early English Rothschilds is reputed to have said that monetary control is more meaningful than politics or government (Ällow me to control a nationś currency and money supply, and I care not who writes that nation´s laws).

The same likely applies to political parties; the man who controls the money and pulls the strings for the democrat party these days is named George Soros.

Frugal1
 
  -3  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 06:43 am
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1hW1VwUkAAxjbE.jpg:large
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 07:43 am
@layman,
You know I never even thought about a union pension but I'm not sure how long it would have taken to vest. I was a dues paying member for 5 years tops. Not worth the trouble, although it would be nice to finally get some benefit from membership.
0 Replies
 
Frugal1
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 01:18 pm
Joke of the day?

Local Democrats practically begging Hillary to run for mayor

Does this indicate a DeBlasio / Warren ticket in 4 years?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 01:59 pm
@gungasnake,
Interesting observation.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 02:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
The goons to which you referred would also have been the folks soliciting your signature on a card or petition if the Democrats and the Obama NLRB had gotten their way in replacing a mandated (if the company requests it) secret ballot among workers with the union-preferred "card check" system for the forrced unionization of companies.

The local reps to which you referred were "shop stewards" hired by the union whose salaries were paid by the company (unions usually want at least 1 shop steward for every twenty employes - that;s a 5% increase in labor cost itself!). In my experience their chief job was to keep those dues-paying workers in line with the union position.

My reference to parisites was to the union infestation of companies, not the workers. Unions do kill the unity and sense of pourpose in a company and, as we have seen, eventually kill the companies themselves. They are stupid parasites.

Well over 90% of union revenues now come from State and Federal governments. Even though Federal Civil Service law declares pay, benefits and work direction a purely government function, our current Administration negotiates all of these with their unions. Federal unions have shop stewards as well - their numbers are huge, as is their cost to the unwitting public. Amusingly some Federal union stewards have even sued the government asking to be excused from the nasty, oppressive, requirement that they report to the office for "work".

Without government protected monopoly restriuctions -- illegal for corporations -- unions would quickly die. This was amply illustrated when Wisconsin decided to discontinue the forced collection of dues for teachers unions, allowing the union to collect them from their loyal members themselves.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 03:18 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
...nature of unions...


Legit candidate for the best post I´ve ever seen on a2k. Iǘe actually saved this off into my canned general-purpose rhetoric collection for possible future use.
0 Replies
 
efoster67
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 05:19 pm
@Brand X,
Calexit? Sounds scary considering how tough the gun laws are in California. If they left the union they would outright ban them. Once a country doesn't let you have guns it's no longer any good to live in.
layman
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 05:29 pm
@efoster67,
California will never declare itself to be an independent nation. What it will do is annex itself to Mexico, on the ground that the territory was originally "stolen" from the Mexicans to begin with

I think the latest census figures show that over 50% of California occupants are now of hispanic descent. Hasta la vista to the People's Republic of California, eh?
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 07:29 pm
@layman,
It's interesting that, net of immigration, California is losing population, as long term residents leave in large numbers. California is rapidly becoming a state without a middle class.along the coast, the cost of living is such that folks, who don't already own property, and don't have an annual income well over $100K can't live here. The situation is less severe in the Central Valley, but there agricultural employment is hurt by water restrictions imposed by the wealthy Democrat elites in Marin County, Santa Barbara, orange County and La Jolla.
Frugal1
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2017 09:43 pm
And the more serious question of the Muslim Brotherhood

0 Replies
 
Frugal1
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 9 Jan, 2017 01:34 pm
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1vYLMqUcAAdbV9.jpg
 

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