The new Democratic party. What will it look like?

The new Dems reportedly look like spoiled baby bullies, shutting down discourse.

http://www.newslogue.com/debate/189

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

The new Dems reportedly look like spoiled baby bullies, shutting down discourse.

http://www.newslogue.com/debate/189

This is a random blog post on an Australian blogging platform complaining about random people that comment on other random blog posts of this author, right?

How is this in any kind of way representative of what you call "the new Dems", Lash?

2 Replies

@georgeob1,

Quote:

People always want free stuff, and that always has an appeal. However the distribution problem so addressed presupposes that someone else solves the problem of producing the stuff that is to be distributed free. The 20th century provided us with a number of laboritories, some very large like China, the USSR, India before 1980, and Cuba and Venezuela today. The result in each case was the same - relative poverty for all, tyranny and the loss of personal freedom.

Why don't we adopt gun laws that appear to work in other countries? Because the US is not like those other countries..

Fair enough. The US isn't like those other countries. Their experiment with wealth distribution needn't be our experiment. The US is in a unique position to make a run at making this place for the better - using our incredible wealth to enable so many more of us to be successful. We don't have to make the same mistakes of the other countries. The ideology doesn't dictate what actually happens on the ground..ask the slaves..

However, your concern is a valid one - though its conclusion is not a necessary one..

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@old europe,

Because it happens to be true.

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@catbeasy,

Quote:

Under Barack Obama, the U.S. has, for the first time in this nation’s history, increased the concentration of its privately held wealth during an “economic recovery” from a financial crash. (Consequently: the bottom 90% have experienced no benefit from this “recovery.”) Usually, there is more instead of less economic equality in the wake of a crash; but Obama’s policies of holding harmless the Wall Street insiders who profited enormously from creating the bubble, and of restoring their wealth by taxpayers buying up their toxic assets via the bailouts, etc., have made the U.S. more like nations such as Chile, India, Indonesia, and less like nations such as Australia, Canada, and Finland. Although Mr. Obama’s rhetoric has been opposed to extreme wealth-concentration, his policies have actually intensified that tendency.

source

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@catbeasy,

I don't believe human nature has changed significantly in the last four thousand years. Just brak out a copy of Aesop's Fables to observe a record of the foibles of human nature 2,500 years ago and try to find anything that has changed.

You haven't addressed the production/distribution dilemma I noted above, or the dismal record of the previous efforts at creating a perfect anthill. Do that effectively and you might be worth a hearing.

The observable fact is the complexities of human nature far exceed the intellectual reach of the thinkers and dreamers, from Plato to Marx and even modern progressives who have made the attempts. The debacle of the unworkable 1,000 page Obamacare legislation, drafted by the exteemed Johnathan Gruber and Ezekiel Emmanuel and others like them, tells the story in microcosim.Both of these esteeemed "thinkers" blame the people, who knew very well what was and wasn't good for them, for failing to "understand" their noble purposes. Lenin did the same and exterminated hundreds of thousands in the proicess. Stalin & Mao were more determined and exterminated tens of millions - while producing only poverty.

There's a version of the Tower of Babel story not only in the Hebrew Bible but also in earlier texts from Persia and oither cultures.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

The 20th century provided us with a number of laboritories, some very large like China, the USSR, India before 1980, and Cuba and Venezuela today. The result in each case was the same - relative poverty for all, tyranny and the loss of personal freedom.

That list of countries seems a bit selective.

I suppose throwing in Norway, Switzerland or New Zealand would undermine your argument that providing more extensive public services invariably leads to relative poverty for all, tyranny and the loss of personal freedom.

1 Reply

@old europe,

old europe wrote:

[I suppose throwing in Norway, Switzerland or New Zealand would undermine your argument that providing more extensive public services invariably leads to relative poverty for all, tyranny and the loss of personal freedom.

No I don't think so. I believe they are somewhat special cases that evolved under rather narrow circumstances involving very high degrees of cultural uniformity; challenging physical environments that required high degrees of organization and prosperity for survival and prosperity; nd physical isolation from contending or ambitious neighbors. Certainly the Scandanavian countried are now facing some internal challenges possibly resulting from the increased internal mobility in the Schengen Zone.

I' not sure I would put New Zealand on the list, but I havent spoken to any Maoris lately.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

I believe they are somewhat special cases that evolved under rather narrow circumstances involving very high degrees of cultural uniformity; challenging physical environments that required high degrees of organization and prosperity for survival and prosperity; nd physical isolation from contending or ambitious neighbors.

Meanwhile, Canada's significantly more comprehensive, more affordable and more universal healthcare system evolved under circumstances very comparable to those in the United States.

Maybe you're overemphasizing factors like cultural uniformity and physical environments and isolation.

1 Reply

@old europe,

Canada has very loose environmental law - mostly determined at the provincial level. It is a large importer with respect to the rest of the world, but enjoys a huge trade surplus with the United States that more than pays for that trade deficit, making them a large net exporter and paying for their public benefits. Most of the exports to the United States are from various extraction industries; timber, mined minerals and tar sands petroleum.

A very large fraction of that is in effect subsidized by environmental restrictions in the U.S. - particularly on timber, minerals, and until recent new innovations, petroleum. ( our misguided EPA literally shut down timber production in the northwest a decade ago, supposedly to save the "spoted owl" from extinction - since then the population of that species has continued its decline, apparently because it is being out competed in its environment from the nearly indistinguishable brown owl - evidently natrural selection continues)

In the last few years, armed with directional horizontal drilling and better geological mapping of shale formations, our gas and petroleum production has soared. That and the resulting lower world price has badly hurt Canadian tar sands oil exports, but I understand they are planning a pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific coast to serve the China market. They can surviuve with a petroleum price of about $45/barrel or better - a close thing now.

U.S. hospitals in the northern states do a very good business serving Canadians with serious diseases waiting, and waiting for access to specialists. I understand the quality of Canadian health care is good, but the fact is their economies mostly result from rationing expensive care to the sick and old (minimal effect on life expectancy) , and nationalizing the purchase of drugs and medicines, and thereby taking a free ride on the profits required to sustain reasearch into new treatments.

I prefer a free market, but I have no interest in telling the Canadians how they should manage their affairs, and would hesitate to do so.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Quote:

Canada has very loose environmental law - mostly determined at the provincial level. It is a large importer with respect to the rest of the world, but enjoys a huge trade surplus with the United States that more than pays for that trade deficit, making them a large net exporter and paying for their public benefits.

What do you think about Israel having universal healthcare and having money to donate to other countries while we donate to Israel billions of dollars?

1 Reply

I think this guy is funny and understands the reality that is in front of him. What do you think about him?

1 Reply

@reasoning logic,

As a satirist, he's up with the best.

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@old europe,

Pretending you don't understand what the writer is saying is just another tired, head-in-the-sand gaslighting ploy used by Establishment Democrats mentioned in text I linked.

Read and comprehend.

1 Reply

@Lash,

I understand quite well what's she's saying.

I'm questioning your assertion that the "low-information, high-confidence Hillary voters" who show up on her page to say mean things and call her a Trump supporter are representative of "the new Dems."

Would you also argue that posters who show up in these threads to say mean things and insult liberals are representative of Establishment Republicans?

1 Reply

Saying mean things really hurts the feelings of liberal progressive democrats?

Fu*k 'em.

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@old europe,

No, you've missed the author's specific points, intentionally so--mirroring the author's specific point... /bitter laugh. The Dems aren't just saying mean things.

If you're actually interested in the answer to your question, read for understanding instead of reading for fodder for attack. But, you people don't really do that anymore, do you?

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

The Dems aren't just saying mean things.

Who is saying or doing these things, Lash?

Who exactly are you accusing of those things? Who are these ominous "Establishment Democrats" who call you white supremacists, fascists, or Nazis?

Lash wrote:

But, you people don't really do that anymore, do you?

Are you throwing in a "you people" for good measure, or does that mean you're just throwing anyone who disagrees with you into the "Establishment Democrats" category?

1 Reply

@old europe,

You realize the democrat party is, and always has been the party of hate, right?

0bama just to took the hate to a new level, he successfully spread the misery around.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0koNLTWIAEbsu2.jpg

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The new Democratic party. What will it look like?

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