0
   

Bush AWOL documents fake?

 
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 07:56 pm
Lash wrote:
So, DNA evidence only counts when it gets people off...?


I think you know the answer to that question.

Rolling Eyes

BTW, why did you change ID's again?
0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 07:59 pm
PDiddie wrote:


What do you call CBS News when they have lost all credibility?

FOX News.


Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:02 pm
A Lone Voice wrote:
Right. Except all of the libs feel righteous in their proclamations that Fox News is evil, slanted, and a right-wing tool for the bad guys.

Yet, if Repubs start claiming the same about Dan Rather/CBS, libs sniff and tell us we're being silly. Even though Dan is an admitted Dem donor and supporter.

Wee bit of a double standard by those who call themselves 'progressives', no?


i would agree with you but for one thing. i made an mp3 file of a short conversation i pvr-ed of fox magazine. they were discussing the doc called "outfoxed", which portrays fox as a heavily biased rep/conservative outlet. what got me was when neil gabbler ( i think it was) comes right out and says that of course fox follows a republican slant, it's target audience is republicans. this is echoed by a woman also on the panel.

i thought i had trashed the file, but i found it earlier. i'll turn it into a quicktime file and put it up. it is a hoot to hear it straight from the fox's mouth.

also, alv, i don't really hear the other networks get down on conservatives or even fox the way that fox goes after them. when i hear a single outlet label the rest of the majors as "the elite liberal media", it makes it pretty clear where they're coming from.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:03 pm
I had changed my e-mail a while back--and then needed to talk to the Help Desk--who needed me to have my current e-mail addy with my name.

So, when I re-opened, I didn't know how to do it with the Sofia name. Cause, it was taken...by me... Confusing, for me at least.

I will never make fun of computer ineptness again.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:05 pm
An entirely off-topic rebuttal, here, PDiddie, but he was found not guilty by a jury selected from among rhe jury pool available in Los Angeles, which the DA felt would be a more media-convenient venue for the trial than Santa Monica, where the crime occurred and where the trial by rights should have been held, and where O. J. was in the subsequent civil trial found responsible. Not the same thing as guilty in a capital matter, sure, but then, the Santa Monica jury was not composed of casually-if-at-all-employed, semi-literate folks who couldn't understand things liike spatter patterns, unique shoe prints, and DNA matches.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:06 pm
I like Lash, formerly Sofia.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:23 pm
timberlandko wrote:
he was found not guilty by a jury selected from among rhe jury pool available in Los Angeles, which the DA felt would be a more media-convenient venue for the trial than Santa Monica, where the crime occurred and where the trial by rights should have been held, and where O. J. was in the subsequent civil trial found responsible.


you're right timber, but there is the elephant in the room as well. this followed on the heels of the big riots. if o.j. had been convicted, it would have set it off, probably even bigger. it just blows my mind. when i moved here in the mid '70s, it was a very cool place. by the late '80s, the city had really gotten into this stupid attitude where everything is a race issue. even when it's not.

bummer dude...
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:25 pm
lash, are you really into the goth thing?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:46 pm
timberlandko wrote:
An entirely off-topic rebuttal, here, PDiddie, but he was found not guilty by a jury selected from among rhe jury pool available in Los Angeles, which the DA felt would be a more media-convenient venue for the trial than Santa Monica, where the crime occurred and where the trial by rights should have been held, and where O. J. was in the subsequent civil trial found responsible. Not the same thing as guilty in a capital matter, sure, but then, the Santa Monica jury was not composed of casually-if-at-all-employed, semi-literate folks who couldn't understand things liike spatter patterns, unique shoe prints, and DNA matches.


That's not just off-topic, it's pointless and harshly judgmental.

It's subtly racist as well.

I note this is a recurring pattern.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 08:56 pm
Note what you wish to infer, PDiddie.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 09:05 pm
Not meaning to segue out of this interesting topic but mostly curious about fake documents. Seems to me that I remember Connie Rice and George Bush using faked doucments as an excuse to invade Iraq, something about Yellow Cake and Niger if i remember correctly. They were faked documents, were they not?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 09:16 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Not meaning to segue out of this interesting topic but mostly curious about fake documents. Seems to me that I remember Connie Rice and George Bush using faked doucments as an excuse to invade Iraq, something about Yellow Cake and Niger if i remember correctly. They were faked documents, were they not?


Yup.

A while back the Bush administration found itself in possession of some documents purporting to show that Iraq was buying enriched uranium in Niger and that Iraq, Iran, and a host of other countries were collaborating to launch terrorist attacks on the United States.

The CIA regarded these as obvious forgeries, but they were in line with the ideological preconceptions of various civilians in the Defense Department and the vice president's office.

So information based on these forgeries found its way into Bush's 2003 State of the Union address. After this deception came to light, cooler heads at the NSC and the CIA began to prevail and admitted that 'mistakes were made'. "It was just sixteen words..."

The result, quite correctly, was some bad press for the Bush administration.

The White House then learned the lesson not that they should start vetting speeches more carefully or fire some of the folks responsible, but rather that they should never admit to having ever done anything wrong lest it bring them bad press.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 09:21 pm
an interesting model to follow, don't you think? Where have you gone Joe DiMaggio? a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 09:59 pm
Texas Penal Code Re Fraudulent Documents; § 37.09 and § 37.10
Quote:
§ 37.09. TAMPERING WITH OR FABRICATING PHYSICAL
EVIDENCE. (a) A person commits an offense if, knowing that an
investigation or official proceeding is pending or in progress, he:
(1) alters, destroys, or conceals any record,
document, or thing with intent to impair its verity, legibility, or
availability as evidence in the investigation or official
proceeding; or
(2) makes, presents, or uses any record, document, or
thing with knowledge of its falsity and with intent to affect the
course or outcome of the investigation or official proceeding.
(b) This section shall not apply if the record, document, or
thing concealed is privileged or is the work product of the parties
to the investigation or official proceeding.
(c) An offense under Subsection (a) or Subsection (d)(1) is
a felony of the third degree. An offense under Subsection (d)(2) is
a Class A misdemeanor.
(d) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) knowing that an offense has been committed,
alters, destroys, or conceals any record, document, or thing with
intent to impair its verity, legibility, or availability as
evidence in any subsequent investigation of or official proceeding
related to the offense; or
(2) observes human remains under circumstances in
which a reasonable person would believe that an offense had been
committed, knows or reasonably should know that a law enforcement
agency is not aware of the existence of or location of the remains,
and fails to report the existence of and location of the remains to
a law enforcement agency.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 565, § 4, eff. Sept. 1,
1991; Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994;
Acts 1997, 75th Leg., ch. 1284, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1997.


§ 37.10. TAMPERING WITH GOVERNMENTAL RECORD. (a) A
person commits an offense if he:
(1) knowingly makes a false entry in, or false
alteration of, a governmental record;
(2) makes, presents, or uses any record, document, or
thing with knowledge of its falsity and with intent that it be taken
as a genuine governmental record;
(3) intentionally destroys, conceals, removes, or
otherwise impairs the verity, legibility, or availability of a
governmental record;
(4) possesses, sells, or offers to sell a governmental
record or a blank governmental record form with intent that it be
used unlawfully;
(5) makes, presents, or uses a governmental record
with knowledge of its falsity; or
(6) possesses, sells, or offers to sell a governmental
record or a blank governmental record form with knowledge that it
was obtained unlawfully.
(b) It is an exception to the application of Subsection
(a)(3) that the governmental record is destroyed pursuant to legal
authorization or transferred under Section 441.204, Government
Code. With regard to the destruction of a local government record,
legal authorization includes compliance with the provisions of
Subtitle C, Title 6, Local Government Code.
(c)(1) Except as provided by Subdivision (2) and by
Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a Class A
misdemeanor unless the actor's intent is to defraud or harm
another, in which event the offense is a state jail felony.
(2) An offense under this section is a felony of the
third degree if it is shown on the trial of the offense that the
governmental record was a public school record, report, or
assessment instrument required under Chapter 39, Education Code, or
was a license, certificate, permit, seal, title, letter of patent,
or similar document issued by government, by another state, or by
the United States, unless the actor's intent is to defraud or harm
another, in which event the offense is a felony of the second
degree.
(d) An offense under this section, if it is shown on the
trial of the offense that the governmental record is described by
Section 37.01(2)(D), is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed
under Subsection (a)(2) or Subsection (a)(5) and the defendant is
convicted of presenting or using the record;
(2) a felony of the third degree if the offense is
committed under:
(A) Subsection (a)(1), (3), (4), or (6); or
(B) Subsection (a)(2) or (5) and the defendant is
convicted of making the record; and
(3) a felony of the second degree, notwithstanding
Subdivisions (1) and (2), if the actor's intent in committing the
offense was to defraud or harm another.
(e) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution for
possession under Subsection (a)(6) that the possession occurred in
the actual discharge of official duties as a public servant.
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a)(1),
(a)(2), or (a)(5) that the false entry or false information could
have no effect on the government's purpose for requiring the
governmental record.
(g) A person is presumed to intend to defraud or harm
another if the person acts with respect to two or more of the same
type of governmental records or blank governmental record forms and
if each governmental record or blank governmental record form is a
license, certificate, permit, seal, title, or similar document
issued by government.
(h) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this
section also constitutes an offense under Section 32.48 or 37.13,
the actor may be prosecuted under any of those sections.
(i) With the consent of the appropriate local county or
district attorney, the attorney general has concurrent
jurisdiction with that consenting local prosecutor to prosecute an
offense under this section that involves the state Medicaid
program.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 1248, § 66, eff. Sept. 1,
1989; Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 113, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1991;
Acts 1991, 72nd Leg., ch. 565, § 5, eff. Sept. 1, 1991; Acts
1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994; Acts 1997,
75th Leg., ch. 189, § 6, eff. May 21, 1997; Acts 1997, 75th Leg.,
ch. 823, § 4, eff. Sept. 1, 1997; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 659,
§ 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 718, § 1,
eff; Sept. 1, 1999; Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 771, § 3, eff.
June 13, 2001; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 198, § 2.139, eff.
Sept. 1, 2003; Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 257, § 16, eff. Sept. 1,
2003.


Taylor County (Tx) Democrats and Kinko's in Abilene
Quote:
... The meeting will be at 7 p.m. at Kinko's on Danville just north of Buffalo Gap road in their meeting room. There are soda machines, etc. You're welcome to bring other refreshments if you like ...


And Dan Rather's daughter Robin's Contribution Record and activism with Texas Democrats ...

No need to rehash Barnes or Burkette.

Damn ... John Grisham couldn't make this up.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Sep, 2004 10:10 pm
The folks who cherish yellowcake oughtta get out more.

Quote:
FactCheck: Bush's "16 Words" on Iraq & Uranium: He May Have Been Wrong But He Wasn't Lying

Two intelligence investigations show Bush had plenty of reason to believe what he said in his 2003 State of the Union Address.

July 26, 2004
Modified: August 23, 2004

Summary



The famous "16 words" in President Bush's Jan. 28, 2003 State of the Union address turn out to have a basis in fact after all, according to two recently released investigations in the US and Britain.

Bush said then, "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa ." Some of his critics called that a lie, but the new evidence shows Bush had reason to say what he did.

A British intelligence review released July 14 calls Bush's 16 words "well founded."
A separate report by the US Senate Intelligence Committee said July 7 that the US also had similar information from "a number of intelligence reports," a fact that was classified at the time Bush spoke.
Ironically, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who later called Bush's 16 words a "lie", supplied information that the Central Intelligence Agency took as confirmation that Iraq may indeed have been seeking uranium from Niger .
Both the US and British investigations make clear that some forged Italian documents, exposed as fakes soon after Bush spoke, were not the basis for the British intelligence Bush cited, or the CIA's conclusion that Iraq was trying to get uranium.
None of the new information suggests Iraq ever nailed down a deal to buy uranium, and the Senate report makes clear that US intelligence analysts have come to doubt whether Iraq was even trying to buy the stuff. In fact, both the White House and the CIA long ago conceded that the 16 words shouldn't have been part of Bush's speech.

But what he said - that Iraq sought uranium - is just what both British and US intelligence were telling him at the time. So Bush may indeed have been misinformed, but that's not the same as lying.


Analysis



The "16 words" in Bush's State of the Union Address on Jan. 28, 2003 have been offered as evidence that the President led the US into war using false information intentionally. The new reports show Bush accurately stated what British intelligence was saying, and that CIA analysts believed the same thing.

The Butler Report

After nearly a six-month investigation, a special panel reported to the British Parliament July 14 that British intelligence had indeed concluded back in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was seeking to buy uranium. The review panel was headed by Lord Butler of Brockwell, who had been a cabinet secretary under five different Prime Ministers and who is currently master of University College, Oxford.

The Butler report said British intelligence had "credible" information -- from several sources -- that a 1999 visit by Iraqi officials to Niger was for the purpose of buying uranium:

Butler Report: It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999. The British Government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger's exports, the intelligence was credible.

The Butler Report affirmed what the British government had said about the Niger uranium story back in 2003, and specifically endorsed what Bush said as well.

Butler Report: By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa" was well-founded.

The Senate Intelligence Committee Report

The U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence reported July 7, 2004 that the CIA had received reports from a foreign government (not named, but probably Britain) that Iraq had actually concluded a deal with Niger to supply 500 tons a year of partially processed uranium ore, or "yellowcake." That is potentially enough to produce 50 nuclear warheads

The Senate report said the CIA then asked a "former ambassador" to go to Niger and report. That is a reference to Joseph Wilson -- who later became a vocal critic of the President's 16 words. The Senate report said Wilson brought back denials of any Niger-Iraq uranium sale, and argued that such a sale wasn't likely to happen. But the Intelligence Committee report also reveals that Wilson brought back something else as well -- evidence that Iraq may well have wanted to buy uranium.
Wilson reported that he had met with Niger's former Prime Minister Ibrahim Mayaki, who said that in June 1999 he was asked to meet with a delegation from Iraq to discuss "expanding commercial relations" between the two countries.
Based on what Wilson told them, CIA analysts wrote an intelligence report saying former Prime Minister Mayki "interpreted 'expanding commercial relations' to mean that the (Iraqi) delegation wanted to discuss uranium yellowcake sales." In fact, the Intelligence Committee report said that "for most analysts" Wilson's trip to Niger "lent more credibility to the original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) reports on the uranium deal."

The subject of uranium sales never actually came up in the meeting, according to what Wilson later told the Senate Intelligence Committee staff. He quoted Mayaki as saying that when he met with the Iraqis he was wary of discussing any trade issues at all because Iraq remained under United Nations sanctions. According to Wilson, Mayaki steered the conversation away from any discussion of trade.

For that reason, Wilson himself has publicly dismissed the significance of the 1999 meeting. He said on NBC's Meet the Press May 2, 2004:

Wilson: …At that meeting, uranium was not discussed. It would be a tragedy to think that we went to war over a conversation in which uranium was not discussed because the Niger official was sufficiently sophisticated to think that perhaps he might have wanted to discuss uranium at some later date.

But that's not the way the CIA saw it at the time. In the CIA's view, Wilson's report bolstered suspicions that Iraq was indeed seeking uranium in Africa. The Senate report cited an intelligence officer who reviewed Wilson's report upon his return from Niger:

Committee Report: He (the intelligence officer) said he judged that the most important fact in the report was that the Nigerian officials admitted that the Iraqi delegation had traveled there in 1999, and that the Nigerian Prime Minister believed the Iraqis were interested in purchasing uranium, because this provided some confirmation of foreign government service reporting.

"Reasonable to Assess"

At this point the CIA also had received "several intelligence reports" alleging that Iraq wanted to buy uranium from the Democratic Republic of the Congo and from Somalia, as well as from Niger. The Intelligence Committee concluded that "it was reasonable for analysts to assess that Iraq may have been seeking uranium from Africa based on Central Intelligence Agency reporting and other available intelligence."

Reasonable, that is, until documents from an Italian magazine journalist showed up that seemed to prove an Iraq-Niger deal had actually been signed. The Intelligence Committee said the CIA should have been quicker to investigate the authenticity of those documents, which had "obvious problems" and were soon exposed as fakes by the International Atomic Energy Agency.

"We No Longer Believe"

Both the Butler report and the Senate Intelligence Committee report make clear that Bush's 16 words weren't based on the fake documents. The British didn't even see them until after issuing the reports -- based on other sources -- that Bush quoted in his 16 words. But discovery of the Italian fraud did trigger a belated reassessment of the Iraq/Niger story by the CIA.

Once the CIA was certain that the Italian documents were forgeries, it said in an internal memorandum that "we no longer believe that there is sufficient other reporting to conclude that Iraq pursued uranium from abroad." But that wasn't until June 17, 2003 -- nearly five months after Bush's 16 words.

Soon after, on July 6, 2003, former ambassador Wilson went public in a New York Times opinion piece with his rebuttal of Bush's 16 words, saying that if the President was referring to Niger "his conclusion was not borne out by the facts as I understood them," and that "I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat." Wilson has since used much stronger language, calling Bush's 16 words a "lie" in an Internet chat sponsored by the Kerry campaign.

On July 7, the day after Wilson's original Times article, White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer took back the 16 words, calling them "incorrect:"

Fleischer: Now, we've long acknowledged -- and this is old news, we've said this repeatedly -- that the information on yellow cake did, indeed, turn out to be incorrect.

And soon after, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice acknowledged that the 16 words were, in retrospect, a mistake. She said during a July 11, 2003 White House press briefing :

Rice: What we've said subsequently is, knowing what we now know, that some of the Niger documents were apparently forged, we wouldn't have put this in the President's speech -- but that's knowing what we know now.

That same day, CIA Director George Tenet took personal responsibility for the appearance of the 16 words in Bush's speech:

Tenet: These 16 words should never have been included in the text written
for the President.

Tenet said the CIA had viewed the original British intelligence reports as "inconclusive," and had "expressed reservations" to the British.

The Senate report doesn't make clear why discovery of the forged documents changed the CIA's thinking. Logically, that discovery should have made little difference since the documents weren't the basis for the CIA's original belief that Saddam was seeking uranium. However, the Senate report did note that even within the CIA the comments and assessments were "inconsistent and at times contradictory" on the Niger story.

Even after Tenet tried to take the blame, Bush's critics persisted in saying he lied with his 16 words -- for example, in an opinion column July 16, 2003 by Michael Kinsley in the Washington Post :

Kinsley: Who was the arch-fiend who told a lie in President Bush's State of the Union speech? . . .Linguists note that the question "Who lied in George Bush's State of the Union speech" bears a certain resemblance to the famous conundrum "Who is buried in Grant's Tomb?"

However, the Senate report confirmed that the CIA had reviewed Bush's State of the Union address, and -- whatever doubts it may have harbored -- cleared it for him.

Senate Report: When coordinating the State of the Union, no Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) analysts or officials told the National Security Council (NSC) to remove the "16 words" or that there were concerns about the credibility of the Iraq-Niger uranium reporting.

The final word on the 16 words may have to await history's judgment. The Butler report's conclusion that British intelligence was "credible" clearly doesn't square with what US intelligence now believes. But these new reports show Bush had plenty of reason to believe what he said, even if British intelligence is eventually shown to be mistaken.


So ... does "The Cherished Story" trump the ACTUAL evidence?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2004 07:25 am
New Memo Found:

Quote:
Memo To: Dan Rather

CC: CBS, Viacom, J. Kerry, DNC

From: The Electorate

Subject: Buh Bye

Message:

http://www.accesscom.com/~jkahn/temp/laurie_dhue_blows_kisses_animated.gif
 
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2004 07:27 am
So Timberland, are you suggesting the "yellow cake" documents were not faked? Just trying to cut to the chase.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2004 07:45 am
I am suggesting nothing, I assert the Yellowcake Documents complaint is both diversionary and unfounded. I further submit that in perpetuating that particular meme, The Opposition clearly evidences a preference for rote partisanship as opposed to objective, analytically thought-out proactive discourse.

I surmise their propensity to engage in such nonsense has much to do with their evidenced and continuing failure to engage The Electorate.

I suggest should they wish to improve their prospects, they should try a new approach.

I expect they won't.
0 Replies
 
flyboy804
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2004 08:26 am
DontTreadonMe as evidence of Fox's conservative bias (a fact with which I don't disagree) used quotes from Niel Gabler and the "woman panelist". He failed to mention that these two are the liberal members of Fox's weekly program "Newswatch". I am not surprised that the two conservative panelists on the program were not quoted.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Sep, 2004 08:45 am
BBB
I suggest that all FOX "News" voyeurs go to see the film "Out Foxed" or buy or rent the DVD. Dyslexia, Diane and I watched it last night and we all agreed it was the most depressing film we have ever seen. Even FOX lovers could learn something from it.

Why depressing,? Because it demonstrated how FOX is the official news channel of the republican party and the Bush administration. It showed how its viewers are manipulated by the entire staff on orders from owner Rupert Murdoch. What is depressing is that it is, apparently, working. We didn't know if we were more angry at FOX News or at the public who doesn't notice that it's "fair and balance" claim isn't. I would think that even conservatives would want the truth and facts so they can decide for themselves their meaning and impact. FOX does their thinking for them, something I would think ought to be offensive to everyone, including conservatives.

It is interesting that a few years ago, FOX News won a lawsuit filed against it by declaring under oath that FOX News is not a news program, that it is, instead, an entertainment program. Therefore, it couldn't be held to the standards required of news journalism. That should be a wake-up call to all who depend on FOX for their news.

BBB
0 Replies
 
 

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