Rising fascism in the US

@BillW,

Actually, I don't think that Marie-Louise Coleiro Preca is a woman who can be compared with any dictator and totalitarian head of state. But I might be wrong. (The murder certainly is a dark day for the Maltese democracy.)

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@BillW,

Quote:

It is a sign of Totalitarianism - which is a sign of all dictatorial regimes and a practice spoken of favorably by tRump, who is setting into actions attempts to achieve this situation in America; approved of by 32% deplorable, despicable Americans on the extreme fascist right!

Yes, we all agree that Totalitarianism is bad. The problem is that you all talking out of a partisan bubble... as if every Totalitarian regime is right-wing (and never left wing). You want to believe that terrorism never comes from the left, that suppression of the press never comes from the left. Look at Venezuela (or are you partisans going to claim that that is a right-wing regime too).

If you want to be against totalitarianism... I am with you. But partisanship isn't principle; if you are really against totalitarianism, then you will not ignore the problems coming from your own ideological side.

Trump was not installed as a totalitarian dictator, he was elected democratically with support of enough Americans (almost half) to win the election as stated in the Constitution. He now gets a 4 year term (almost certainly). That is how the system works. Trump hasn't overturned the rulings of the courts. He hasn't shut down the press. He hasn't rounded up people who oppose him. All he has done is make some executive orders that have been reviewed by the courts... and written some tweets.

I agree that Trump is a bad president-- maybe the worst (although Andrew Jackson was probably worse). But calm down, this isn't the end of the republic. It is just a pathetic guy who got elected because his opponent was also pathetic.

The reason Hillary lost the election is because it turns out Americans don't like being called "deplorables". It doesn't sound like the left-wing partisans have learned this lesson. This is a constitutional democracy... which is why that you can't just insult your way into political power. The left had better learn this quickly or they will keep losing elections.

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@maxdancona,

Well said. The problem doesn’t exist within anyone’s neat partisan boundaries.

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"Totalitarian" is a term that's used to describe suppressive leftist governments. "Authoritarian" refers to repressive rightist governments and dictatorial regimes.

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@InfraBlue,

Are you saying that the Maduro government in Venezuela, or the Castro government in Cuba are not repressive?

North Korea should also be considered a left-wing government (it came from the Communist side of the cold war). I will admit that when you get that extreme, it is hard to tell the difference between right-wing and left wing.

People on this thread seem to be saying that it is OK for people to use violence (i.e. beat people who disagree with them using sticks) as long as the attackers have the correct ideological point of view. I strongly disagree with this.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Well said. The problem doesn’t exist within anyone’s neat partisan boundaries.

Correct. However, in re: the topic 'rising Fascism in the US,' there's simply not much left-wing activity to discuss at this time, so it's asinine to say that those focusing on right-wing activity are doing so for partisan reasons only.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

so it's asinine to say that those focusing on right-wing activity are doing so for partisan reasons only

Your partisan hysteria is not justified by the facts any more than Islamophobia is. The amount of what you are calling "right-wing" activity is very low as is the number of Islamic terrorist attacks.

I have an interracial family. There is no reason for me or anyone in my family to have any concern about right wing extremist groups. The odds of anyone in my family being killed by a right wing extremist or an Islamic terrorist is very low... it certainly doesn't justify defaming conservatives or Muslims or shutting down mosques or restricting speech.

These are hyped up threats for partisan political gain. You can give me the numbers if you have any to justify your hysteria. I am far more worried about heart disease.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

"Totalitarian" is a term that's used to describe suppressive leftist governments. "Authoritarian" refers to repressive rightist governments and dictatorial regimes.

and strives to regulate every aspect of public and private life wherever feasible. A distinctive feature of totalitarian governments is an "elaborate ideology, a set of ideas that gives meaning and direction to the whole society".

Totalitarianism is the most severe and extreme form of authoritarianism.

The concept was first developed in the 1920s by the Weimar German jurist, and later Nazi academic, Carl Schmitt, and Italian fascists. Schmitt used the term, Totalstaat, in his influential work on the legal basis of an all-powerful state, The Concept of the Political (1927). The concept became prominent in Western political discourse as a concept that highlights similarities between Fascist states and the Soviet Union.

-Wikipedia

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

Your partisan hysteria is not justified by the facts any more than Islamophobia is.

What would you know about facts, buddy? You make things up and then ignore it when called out on it. Isn't that correct? You've done exactly that several times within the last few pages. Do you admit this?

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

I don’t understand the merit of attempting to censure those voices that direct your attention to anti-democratic encroachments from the left.

This site is amply populated by voices against Trump and his legion of mistakes and, yes, moves that definitely lend to authoritarianism and mirror Fascism. I agree.

Those same voices—yours added here—attempt to censure those of us who consider it important to point to behaviors with anti-democratic results from the other side of the political spectrum.

Why argue? Why call names?

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@Cycloptichorn,

I say there IS much to point to, and you don’t see it because you aren’t looking.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Lash wrote:

Well said. The problem doesn’t exist within anyone’s neat partisan boundaries.

Correct. However, in re: the topic 'rising Fascism in the US,' there's simply not much left-wing activity to discuss at this time, so it's asinine to say that those focusing on right-wing activity are doing so for partisan reasons only.

Cycloptichorn

Let me point out also, and more pertinent, we are discussing someone in control of the Presidency and Republican Party who are trying to turn the country over into a totalitarian, fascist regime!

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I don’t understand the merit of attempting to censure those voices that direct your attention to anti-democratic encroachments from the left.

Well, we're all free to make our own judgements on what is and isn't relevant to the thread. If you want to focus on left-wing Fascism in America, go right ahead. That doesn't, however, give you the right to be immune to criticism for making a Mountain out of a Molehill.

Quote:

This site is amply populated by voices against Trump and his legion of mistakes and, yes, moves that definitely lend to authoritarianism and mirror Fascism. I agree.

Those same voices—yours added here—attempt to censure those of us who consider it important to point to behaviors with anti-democratic results from the other side of the political spectrum.

Why argue? Why call names?

The problem is that some (not necessarily, but maybe including you, I haven't read every post in this thread) are presenting the current situation as if there's some sort of equivalence between either the behavior, the goals, or the current level of threat from both sources of potential Fascism in this country. This is a false assertion and anyone of intelligence can see that immediately. It is entirely fair to say that the threat of left-wing Fascism is extremely, extremely low right now, for a variety of reasons. You can't say that about right-wing Fascism at this time.

I also have no tolerance for liars and fools who can't be bothered to even do simple research before writing posts - as I'm sure you well know.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

What would you know about facts, buddy? You make things up and then ignore it when called out on it. Isn't that correct? You've done exactly that several times within the last few pages. Do you admit this?

I am unsure what posts you are referring to, however if Max happened to say something that was incorrect I'm sure it was an honest mistake instead of a deliberate fabrication.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I say there IS much to point to, and you don’t see it because you aren’t looking.

Well you say that, but you're wrong. And the examples you and others have provided are pretty ******* weak. And, it's an attempt to paint a false picture of equivalence between the two major ideologies in our country that simply does not exist.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

It is entirely fair to say that the threat of left-wing Fascism is extremely, extremely low right now, for a variety of reasons. You can't say that about right-wing Fascism at this time.

I can say it. In my view the odds of fascism coming to America from either end of the political spectrum are very low.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I also have no tolerance for liars and fools who can't be bothered to even do simple research before writing posts - as I'm sure you well know.

Maybe though when you see someone post something that you believe is incorrect, they are not ill-informed, but are instead actually correct about what they are posting about.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

The problem is that some (not necessarily, but maybe including you, I haven't read every post in this thread) are presenting the current situation as if there's some sort of equivalence between either the behavior, the goals, or the current level of threat from both sources of potential Fascism in this country. This is a false assertion and anyone of intelligence can see that immediately. It is entirely fair to say that the threat of left-wing Fascism is extremely, extremely low right now, for a variety of reasons. You can't say that about right-wing Fascism at this time.

I also have no tolerance for liars and fools who can't be bothered to even do simple research before writing posts - as I'm sure you well know.
Cycloptichorn

Let me put forward my belief of political theory. The right/left wing spectrum is not a line, it is a circle where both extremes meet at 12 o'clock. It is just a matter of a slight move for fascism to move from extreme left to extreme right win, or the other way. Regardless of which "wing", it is a deplorable/evil ideology. tRump, Bannon and all their ilk are fascists; therefore, deplorable/evil scum!

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@BillW,

Juan José Linz gave some good definition characteristics in his work Totalitarian and Authoritarian Regimes

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

What would you know about facts, buddy? You make things up and then ignore it when called out on it. Isn't that correct?

You are confusing your ideological narrative with "facts". There is a difference.

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I'd be interested to know what anti-democratic encroachment there is from the left. Some loons at Berkeley? Those boys and girls are gettin' a work out--taking over the United States will be a pretty tall order for them.

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Rising fascism in the US

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