Rising fascism in the US

@maxdancona,

Really? So, when you say something stupid about the pre-Nazi German era, and I show you that you're 100% incorrect - and source my evidence that you're incorrect - that's my 'ideological narrative' and not, yaknow, actual facts that you're getting wrong?

'cause that happened several times and you breezed right by it like you didn't **** up and write a bunch of stupid things. Did you expect that to just be, I don't know, forgotten? Nope. Once people reveal they're full of **** and simply write whatever sounds good for their argument, until they admit it, nothing they write is worth a damn.

Cycloptichorn

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
What would you know about facts, buddy? You make things up and then ignore it when called out on it. Isn't that correct? You've done exactly that several times within the last few pages. Do you admit this?

I am unsure what posts you are referring to, however if Max happened to say something that was incorrect I'm sure it was an honest mistake instead of a deliberate fabrication.

Really? Why are you so sure of that? I'm not at all sure of that. I mean, people make **** up on the internet all the time, you know that, right?

Also, once it's been pointed out that one's argument relies upon, yeah, complete falsehood, isn't one obligated to admit that they were making things up? I nearly think they are - if intellectual honesty is even slightly important to the person in question.

Cycloptichorn

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@maxdancona,

Could you please identify the A2K members who seem to be saying that it is OK for people to use violence? I certainly don't.

By the way, I was rude to you when I responded to your reply; so, I apologize. I should have expressed my displeasure in a gentler way, and I also should have been more specific as to my objection.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Really? Why are you so sure of that? I'm not at all sure of that. I mean, people make **** up on the internet all the time, you know that, right?

Max just doesn't seem like the type to deliberately make things up.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Also, once it's been pointed out that one's argument relies upon, yeah, complete falsehood, isn't one obligated to admit that they were making things up? I nearly think they are - if intellectual honesty is even slightly important to the person in question.

"Making things up" suggests intent. If someone is merely mistaken, that doesn't mean they are making things up. People say untrue things in good faith all the time.

Also, Max may not agree that he has been proven wrong.

I think I'm mellowing a bit with age, but I think if someone keeps saying something that I am sure is untrue, my first choice will be to just keep correcting them over and over (once for each time they say it) instead of fighting with them about not acknowledging my corrections.

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@maxdancona,

Oh, they're both repressive. The Castro regime followed the classical Communist control of virtually every aspect of society to correspond with its extreme left political ideology. The Kim dynasty's regime in North Korea does that as well. The Maduro government, although following leftist governmental ideas, is behaving more like the rightist authoritarians such as Pinochet, and the military government in Argentina. With time he and especially his government may go on to implement more totalitarian governmental policies in Venezuela.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Oh, they're both repressive. The Castro regime followed the classical Communist control of virtually every aspect of society to correspond with its extreme left political ideology. The Kim dynasty's regime in North Korea does that as well. The Maduro government, although following leftist governmental ideas, is behaving more like the rightist authoritarians such as Pinochet, and the military government in Argentina. With time he and especially his government may go on to implement more totalitarian governmental policies in Venezuela.

“To fear the world we have organized and led for three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain 'the last best hope of earth' for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history,” McCain said in the speech.

The Arizona senator said “we live in a land made of ideals, not blood and soil” and said Americans “are the custodians of those ideals at home, and their champion abroad.”
“We have done great good in the world. That leadership has had its costs, but we have become incomparably powerful and wealthy as we did,” McCain said.

“We have a moral obligation to continue in our just cause, and we would bring more than shame on ourselves if we don’t. We will not thrive in a world where our leadership and ideals are absent.”

-The Hill

The difference between left and right repressive governments is that left repressive governments are them and a right repressive government is the one tRump and Bannon are e to create. That is truly scary and bad for all Americans except the wealthy and the powerful.

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Several people in this thread have made the point that fascist policies and tactics have been discernible in left-wing regimes, as well as in right-wing. In fact, when I made a post to outline the key attributes of fascist take-overs, I specifically mentioned Stalin's (so-called) Marxist-Leninist regime in the Soviet Union, saying I saw no difference between that and the classic fascist regimes in Europe in the 1920s and -30s. People keep coming up with these tu quoque fallacies, here and in other threads. Moral turpitude on the part of one individual or group does justify or excuse moral turpitude on the part of another.

People on the right have been calling for the Democratic Party to be banned, including one member here. People on the right have been calling for a purge of the Republican Party, including one member here. President Plump has called the constitution outdated and effectively said it needs to be scrapped--on Fox television, making him undeniably forsworn--he took an oath to preserve, protect and defend the constitution. (The last paragraph of Article Two, Section One reads, in its entirety: Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States." Finally, President Plump has publicly said that NBC should be shut down because they have criticized him.

These represent classic fascist technique. All political opposition is outlawed. The party is purged of those who are considered not to be ideologically "pure." Constitutional protections and legislative statutes are ignored or set aside. Communications, both public and private, are subjected to censorship or banned outright. Fascism is not a political ideology nor an economic system--it is a blueprint for the take-over of government and the maintenance of the regime thereafter.

There may well be many people on what is called the left in the United States who would do the same if given the opportunity. But they are not in power right now, and President Plump and the Republican Party are. Any threat of "rising fascism" in the Untied States right now comes from the far right of the American political spectrum.

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Quote:

The governor of Florida has defended his decision to issue a state of emergency because a white nationalist is due to speak at a campus this week.
Rick Scott, a Republican, said he was not trying to violate the free speech rights of the speaker, Richard Spencer.
Mr Spencer, a figure in the racist "alt-right" movement, is scheduled to speak at the University of Florida's Gainesville campus on Thursday.
The governor's action activates the state's National Guard troops.
"I believe in the first amendment [free speech] rights that people have," Mr Scott told the Orlando Sentinel after a meeting at the state capital in Tallahassee on Tuesday.
"I do expect people to be safe. I don't condone any violence. I'm going to continue with law enforcement to make sure all Floridians are safe."
The order - which covers Alachua County, where the campus is situated - came after the local sheriff appealed to the state for security assistance, Mr Scott noted.
The university said it was not aware of any "specific heightened threat", but Mr Scott warned on Monday that a "threat of a potential emergency is imminent".
Mr Spencer told the Associated Press news agency on Monday that the emergency order was "flattering", but probably "overkill".
He argued that it was an attempt to suppress free speech.
The University of Florida at first tried to prevent Mr Spencer from speaking on campus after an "alt-right" rally near the University of Virginia in August led to violent clashes and one death.
At that event in Charlottesville, which Mr Spencer helped organise, a large group of far-right activists chanted "Jews will not replace us" and "blood and soil" (a Nazi slogan).
The University of Florida (UF) later reversed course, allowing Mr Spencer and his group - the National Policy Institute - to speak after hearing concerns about free speech.
In announcing the climbdown, university president W Kent Fuchs complained in a letter to students that "UF is required by law to allow Mr Spencer to speak his racist views on our campus".
He added that the university is "not allowed by law to bill him for the full costs of keeping our campus safe, which exceed more than a half million dollars".
It will instead charge him only of $10,564 (£8,000) to rent the facility and for security within the venue.
In an online Q&A of more than 30 questions, the university explained that due to a legal doctrine known as the "heckler's veto" they are unable to charge Mr Spencer's group for the enhanced security.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41654975

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This post war US anti Nazi film has gone viral. It's probably even more relevant today.

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@BillW,

Mussolini seems to me quite bright as a young man and more and more erratic and confused as he grew older. I atteibute that to "power corrupts, absolute power corrups absolutely".

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It is anti-fascist not to worry all that much about typos, the automaton-chimp can usually get the drift of their mother tongue.

In this thread, it is Kolyo who comes closest to our examination of the fascist psyche, because Kolyo senses the rumblings of Kent State and the indignant voice of god. Note the resonance with Mormon "white shirts":

''In America the first mention of Fascismo occurs on the 18th of October, 1920, when " armed radicals in black shirts" were reported attacking the offices of the newspaper Il Lavoratore in Trieste with bombs, hand grenades, and bludgeons; it was an item worthy of publication because it affected the lives of two American citizens. Twenty shots were fired at Joseph Emerson Haven, the American consul, who had his office in the newspaper building, and Lincoln Eyre, the representative of the New York World.

Consul Haven sent an indignant report to the State Department, while even more indignant Mr. Eyre cabled that " this outrage is one of a long series committed by these bandits, these nationalist hoodlums, Fascisti as they call themselves, the word meaning 'almost leaders' (sic) or perhaps with greater precision 'gangsters' who pretend to be inspired with patriotic devotion to Italian ideals.'
(Seldes, Sawdust Caesar: The Untold History of Mussolini and Fascism)

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

defaming conservatives or Muslims

I don't think it counts as defamation to criticize Islam for the fact that so many Muslims are bloodthirsty murderers, and so many more Muslims support these murders.

I do understand that many Muslims are peaceful and oppose these murders, and if an individual Muslim genuinely opposes murders and is peaceful, they shouldn't be accused of such behavior.

But Islam does have a major problem within it. Never discussing this problem won't make it go away.

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@oralloy,

Amazingly, I agree with oralloy here.

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@wmwcjr,

I always do the right thing. Whenever you as well choose to do the right thing, you'll find yourself agreeing with me.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

I always do the right thing.

No one always does the right thing. We all do wrong from time to time. I'm painfully aware of that fact. It's human nature.

Quote:

Whenever you as well choose to do the right thing, you'll find yourself agreeing with me.

The ultimate standard of right and wrong will never be found in politics. Any ideology will eventually fail you. I try to follow God in order to do the right thing, and I often fail. (No offense, my atheist friends.) How can I look down on the average person when I've been guilty of my own shortcomings? Of course, I object to those who repeatedly injure others.

Best wishes, oralloy. Eventually I get tired of conflict.

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@wmwcjr,

wmwcjr wrote:

No one always does the right thing. We all do wrong from time to time. I'm painfully aware of that fact. It's human nature.

I'm pretty good at always doing the right thing.

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@Setanta,

True. When a political party or powerful entity controls media, that is also a fascist agenda.

I think what Google is doing stinks of fascism. First, they have decided to change the definition of fascism, likely because of the stink on them.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.dailycaller.com/2017/02/04/google-redefines-the-word-fascism-to-smear-conservatives-protect-liberal-rioters/

Second, they are ******* with the results of searches to quiet progressive voices.

Why does Amazon have a $600 million contract with the CIA? What personal information about you has been recorded by Google? Why do you blame everything on Russian interference rather than take stock of what our government is actively doing to us?

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-silencing-of-dissent/

These moves against freedom are much more dangerous that what Donald Trump is threatening to do. Trump is fumbling around stupidly, threatening to do things the people will not allow, while the snake of actual power behind the scenes has already wildly successfully chipped away at our privacy, made criminals of whistle blowers, broken countless laws and stripped us of tiers of self-determination while training the idiots among us to blame Russia.

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From the linked Truthdig article:

The ruling elites, who grasp that the reigning ideology of global corporate capitalism and imperial expansion no longer has moral or intellectual credibility, have mounted a campaign to shut down the platforms given to their critics. The attacks within this campaign include blacklisting, censorship and slandering dissidents as foreign agents for Russia and purveyors of “fake news.”

No dominant class can long retain control when the credibility of the ideas that justify its existence evaporates. It is forced, at that point, to resort to crude forms of coercion, intimidation and censorship. This ideological collapse in the United States has transformed those of us who attack the corporate state into a potent threat, not because we reach large numbers of people, and certainly not because we spread Russian propaganda, but because the elites no longer have a plausible counterargument.

The elites face an unpleasant choice. They could impose harsh controls to protect the status quo or veer leftward toward socialism to ameliorate the mounting economic and political injustices endured by most of the population. But a move leftward, essentially reinstating and expanding the New Deal programs they have destroyed, would impede corporate power and corporate profits. So instead the elites, including the Democratic Party leadership, have decided to quash public debate. The tactic they are using is as old as the nation-state—smearing critics as traitors who are in the service of a hostile foreign power. Tens of thousands of people of conscience were blacklisted in this way during the Red Scares of the 1920s and 1950s. The current hyperbolic and relentless focus on Russia, embraced with gusto by “liberal” media outlets such as The New York Times and MSNBC, has unleashed what some have called a virulent “New McCarthyism.”

The corporate elites do not fear Russia. There is no publicly disclosed evidence that Russia swung the election to Donald Trump. Nor does Russia appear to be intent on a military confrontation with the United States. I am certain Russia tries to meddle in U.S. affairs to its advantage, as we do and did in Russia—including our clandestine bankrolling of Boris Yeltsin, whose successful 1996 campaign for re-election as president is estimated to have cost up to $2.5 billion, much of that money coming indirectly from the American government. In today’s media environment Russia is the foil. The corporate state is unnerved by the media outlets that give a voice to critics of corporate capitalism, the security and surveillance state and imperialism, including the network RT America.
—�—�—�—�—�—�—�—

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@Lash,

I don't think that google can be Fascist (especially when you use the "proper" definition given in your link.

There have been discussions since ages .... and since ages ages, we here don't understand why anyone more than half-educated could call the NSDAP left.
[In the German-speaking world, there were organisations in the national-conservative and fascist camp that called themselves the "Workers' Party". Examples in Germany are the German Workers' Party and the National Socialist German Workers' Party, in Austria the German Workers' Party (Austria-Hungary) and the German National Socialist Workers' Party. Although they were able to attract many workers as members, they had nothing to do with the labour movement.]

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This is exactly who we are now: the establishment democrats here and throughout the country have no real reason to exist, so they’ve created a bogeyman and revived McCarthyism.

There’s that one old man like John the Baptist, yelling in the wilderness while America burns.

But, Russia.

As bad as he is, as stupid and disgusting, THIS is worse than Trump.

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Rising fascism in the US

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