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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Fri 22 Sep, 2017 08:46 am
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:

People are allowed to protest if a speaker shows up their school espousing views they don't agree with.

On the whole, I agree, people shouldn't use violence as a first line of defense. But they can defend themselves.


Yes, they are allowed to protest.

They aren't allowed to use violence or intimidate the speakers to force the schools to shut down the event due to security concerns. That is what is happening.

And that is where the far-left becomes indistinguishable from the alt-right.
revelette1
 
  1  
Fri 22 Sep, 2017 08:49 am
@maxdancona,
I agree, if that is happening. I know it did in Berkley once.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 02:35 am
@Olivier5,
"Free speech Week" @ Berkeley cancelled by organizers. Some of the touted speakers were never even contacted... The university is pissed to no end at the late cancelling and the lack of seriousness of the whole gig.

The amount of money they are spending for the security of those events is obscene. Next time, make it a teleconference.

Quote:
UC Berkeley has incurred at least $1.4 million in security costs since February, when Yiannopoulos’ last appearance sparked violent protests. The campus spent $200,000 on security for that event, $600,000 for Coulter, whose event ultimately was canceled, and an estimated $600,000 for the talk last week by conservative writer Ben Shapiro, according to the university.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 03:59 am
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/grade-point/wp/2017/09/23/uc-berkeley-says-free-speech-week-is-canceled-milo-yiannopoulos-says-hes-still-coming-to-campus/

Excerpt:
The student group planning to hold a "Free Speech Week" at the University of California at Berkeley canceled the event Saturday, the day before it was expected to begin.

The plans had been closely watched because a controversial speaker, writer Milo Yiannopoulos, had been shut down by violent protests in February and had vowed to come back. In the months since, the school faced continuing fights over free speech, hate speech, politics and political correctness, and the surrounding community had bloody clashes between extremists on the far left and the far right.

Related: [UC-Berkeley readies police, concerned Ann Coulter will speak in public plaza on campus]

"We will not be deterred," Yiannopoulos said in a news conference Saturday afternoon. Without the support of the student group, he and the other speakers could not hold an official university event. But they would hold an unofficial one, he said, "come hell or high water."

He said he and other speakers would be exercising their constitutional right to free expression Sunday at Sproul Plaza on campus, the site of the historic Free Speech Movement protests of the 1960s that made the flagship school a symbol of First Amendment rights. That iconic setting, and the school's reputation as a politically liberal campus, have made it a magnet for controversial speakers this year.
----------------------
I'd like to know the details behind the cancellation.
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 04:28 am
Little bit more about the "Free Speech" week plans and cancellation.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/09/23/uc-berkeley-free-speech-week-officially-canceled/

Excerpt:

BERKELEY — A conservative UC Berkeley student group that had been working with right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos to host a “Free Speech Week” on campus officially called off the four-day program on Saturday.

But the former columnist for the “alt-right” Breitbart News doubled down on his promise to go through with the event, leaving university and law enforcement officials wading into an unpredictable, potentially violent showdown on Sunday.

UC Berkeley police investigating sexual assault on campus
During a hastily scheduled Facebook Live news conference Saturday morning, Yiannopoulos, who has made a career of trolling people online with racist and sexist attacks, insisted the event would move forward without the student group, the Berkeley Patriot.

“We are going to be hosting an event come hell or high water tomorrow,” he said, flanked by anti-Islam writer Pamela Geller and conspiracy theorist Mike Cernovich, two of only a handful of speakers who had publicly said they planned to attend.

The 33-year-old Yiannopoulos, who earlier this year launched the far-right company Milo Inc., offered few specifics but promised to hold a rally on campus at Sproul Plaza at noon “with or without” the student group, saying that he had a “huge surprise” planned.

But he warned: “I can’t promise you’re going to be safe. It’s not an official event.”

Joey Gibson of Patriot Prayer, a Portland, Oregon-based group that has attracted “alt-right” fans, has also promised to be in town for Free Speech Week, as have “anti-fascist” demonstrators. The two sides have a history of violent clashes.

Still, it remained unclear Saturday who will show up to campus in the coming days, leaving the school facing exactly the type of situation administrators were hoping to avoid.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 04:28 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I'd like to know the details behind the cancellation.
According to Lucian Wintrich, one of the supposed speakers, it was "a set-up from the get-go".
Lash
 
  0  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 04:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Why would Yiannopolous try to act like a four day event was forthcoming, while planning to cancel? Only to show up unprotected?

Doesn't make sense.

Maybe additional facts will come out.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 04:49 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
Maybe additional facts will come out.
Well, a lot has been published already on Thursday, Friday and Saturday. Might well be, something new will come out today.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 04:51 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm reading it; I just don't follow the logic.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 06:47 am
@Lash,
The organizers were not serious. They didn't contact some of the listed speakers, didn't book venues... As i explained some time ago, their intent was never to stage an interesting event but to posture as victims. And plenty of idiots will believe them.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 08:30 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

And plenty of idiots will believe them.


Even after being told the truth.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 08:31 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

Why would Yiannopolous try to act like a four day event was forthcoming, while planning to cancel? Only to show up unprotected?

Doesn't make sense.


The Holocaust didn't make sense either, still happened.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 09:09 am
@izzythepush,
That's a nice one-liner, but eradicating Jews and 'other undesirables' was the obvious goal of the Holocaust.

I'm still following this, and you may be right. It just seems antithetical to Yiannopolous' goal of actually being heard in Berkeley.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:43 am
@Lash,
Was it, or was it exploitation and slave labour? When you kill someone you can't make money out of them. The Nazis were motivated by ideology and profit.

As for stuff not making sense, what about the Rommel being unable to move tanks during D day until after Hitler had woken up. There's a mountain of stuff about the far right not making sense. It's no one liner.
Lash
 
  1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 01:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Just FYI, I'm not emotionally invested in the answer to this recent Berkeley event, just curious about what happened and not quick to accept narratives.

izzythepush
 
  2  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 02:04 pm
@Lash,
You are though. The far right have positioned themselves as the victims, and they've managed to turn this away from fascism to free speech. So fascists are fighting for American values and the protestors are all cold war commies taking their orders from North Korea.

It works because you want to believe it's true.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 02:37 pm
@izzythepush,
There is not that much difference between the far right and the far left. They are all trying to act like victims.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Sun 24 Sep, 2017 02:40 pm
From Ana Kasparian, of the Young Turks

Disclaimer: this post contains a ton of profanity, so don't read if it offends you.
Throughout my career I've been disrespected by so many people. I've been called a whore, dumb ****, traitor to Armenians, jihadi, regressive, cuck (my personal fave), etc.
And even though sometimes people have gotten under my skin, none of them ever changed my self-perception. No one has that power because I refuse to give it to them. I know myself. I know my worth. I acknowledge that sometimes I absolutely am a ****. But cunts get **** done, so it's a badge of honor for me.
People are free to say whatever it is that they want to say about me. I'm not going to go on a national tour calling them "sons of bitches" or demand that they get fired from their jobs.
I don't care about their opinions enough to want to take that type of action against them. Their freedom of expression actually means more to me. Adults can put their feelings aside and look at the bigger picture. My feelings are irrelevant compared to the importance of free speech.
Now let's get to the heart of this post: We are supposed to value democracy and freedom. In fact, politicians use the excuse of "spreading democracy" to convince us to engage in wars. That would indicate that we're entitled to freedom of expression, which includes speech that the president may not like. It's what differentiates us from dictatorial regimes and countries run by tyrants.
If you're a vet, or are a current member of the military, and you're offended by athletes who don't stand during the National Anthem, what do you think you joined the military for? Did you do it so people can never criticize our government? Did you do it so no one could ever offend you and treat you as if you're some sort of God? Does something as mild as an athlete not standing for the anthem really hurt your feelings and make you question your own value that much? What are your feelings when Americans are scratching their asses and reading menus in the concession stands during the National Anthem?
If I were in the military, I'd be more offended that our politicians risk my life and the lives of my peers for the profit of private contractors. I'd be furious that we escalate wars and invade countries just to feed this massive military industrial complex. THAT would be something that I'd fight against. Instead of whining about someone else's freedom of expression, which you should be fighting to protect, take a good hard look at your leaders. Those are the people who don't care about you or your well-being.
They may say they do, but supporting our troops would indicate that we DON'T risk their lives so others make money. Our politicians are the people who refuse to provide you with decent health care once you're retired from the military.
Those are the people who use YOU to make their cronies rich.
You're being distracted, and it's happening for a well-thought-out reason. The NFL or NBA isn't treating your life as low-value currency for their investment in escalated war in the Middle East.
Trump is.
Congress is.
Those crying about athletes practicing their Constitutional rights are.
Wake. The. ****. Up.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 01:04 am
@Lash,
Why do you systematically believe what these attention whores say? How naïve of you.

Yiannopolous didn't want to be heard at Berkeley. He wanted the attention, and he got it...
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 25 Sep, 2017 01:24 am
@maxdancona,
You keep saying you love irony but you don't get it. Nobody plays the victim as much as you. You do little else.
 

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