Rising fascism in the US

@Walter Hinteler,

The courtrooms of Germany.

This article seems familiar. Either I or someone else must've linked it here on another thread.

Burkini Wars. Women are getting it from the religious right and the secular left.

http://forward.com/opinion/348351/burkini-wars-show-whats-wrong-with-the-religious-right-and-secular-left/

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

The courtrooms of Germany.

Oh. Can you give a quote for that? And to what kind of courts do you refer to? (Germany has five different branches of jurisdiction which act completely independent of each other. And additionally the Constitutional courts on state and federal level.)

Besides that: why should it a topic and how could it be one?

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

The Armenian Genocide doesn't have a lot of traction in Germany, the Holocaust is something else entirely. There's a very good reason why Holocaust denial is illegal in Germany.

Walter, do you disagree with this statement?

My comment merely emphasizes that German law supports this view.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Walter, do you disagree with this statement?

My comment merely emphasizes that German law supports this view.

I think that this view might be very common - most people, I fear, even don't know about the Armenian Genocide.

Whaht laws do support this in your opinion? (And again my previous question, when and where it has been discussed in court rooms)

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@Walter Hinteler,

It is the fact that it has not been discussed, though it is a genocide. One genocide is illegal to deny; others, not so much.

Are all genocides equal? Seems not.

If everyone with feelings about various genocides brought suit...and crimes connected to genocides...and crimes connected to those crimes, pretty soon, Germans would be unable to speak.

I remember talking to a beautiful young German exchange student at UGA who told us about the classes she had to take re the Holocaust. She was furious with classmates who sat around her for discussing a WWII documentary about Hitler, and I felt so sorry that her innocent generation was being forced to pay for the crimes of other people.

The Holocaust denial law seems like that. Overcompensation. Misplaced.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

It is the fact that it has not been discussed, though it is a genocide. One genocide is illegal to deny; others, not so much.

Are all genocides equal? Seems not.

In the German criminal code we have the term Volksverhetzung ("incitement of the people") [§ 130 StGB] and the above already mentioned paragraphs outlawing various symbols of "unconstitutional organisations".
These paragraphs often apply to trials relating to Holocaust denial trials.

Lash wrote:

I felt so sorry that her innocent generation was being forced to pay for the crimes of other people.

At what date does the "innocent generation" start? (The late Helmut Kohl said, he had "the blessing of a late birth" - he was born in 1930. The extreme rightwing party AfD wants us to be proud of WWII soldiers ....)

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@Lash,

The veil issue is a totally different question than free speech. It's about banning religious symbols from school, that's all. The burkini is NOT forbidden in France, and nor is the burka. But you can't wear a kipa, a cross or a veil in a public school. If you really want your kids to wear those, then ypu must send them to a private school.

Dress codes exist pretty much everywhere. I wish I could go around naked, but I can't... Oh my gode, they stole my freedom!

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@Olivier5,

Exactly, and, speech is free if you basically spew hate or espouse harm to others.
If you don't like it, go to Russia or Turkey where you can be killed in the dead of the night for what you say!

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

The veil issue is a totally different question than free speech. It's about banning religious symbols from school, that's all. The burkini is NOT forbidden in France, and nor is the burka. But you can't wear a kipa, a cross or a veil in a public school. If you really want your kids to wear those, then ypu must send them to a private school.

Dress codes exist pretty much everywhere. I wish I could go around naked, but I can't... Oh my gode, they stole my freedom!

I think that such is - like it would be resp. is here in Germany - part of administrative and not criminal laws. (A Tribunal administratif and a Verwaltungsgericht belong to a different branch of jurisdiction unknown in the USA)

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, if everything was blended out, we would be about the same in the law and the courts. Different wording, different crimes, different sentences - but same attempts at societal control. (ie, between Germany and USA)

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@BillW,

Many people - but not all posters here - know that the two (main) legal systems in countries around the world are common law systems, traced back to the English monarchy (USA) and civil law systems, taken from many sources of authority such as Roman law and "natural" law) (Germany).

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@BillW,

Is the communist party allowed in the US nowadays?

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@Lash,

Are you saying Holocaust denial is a good thing? The Holocaust happened, and the problem with deniers is they start being taken seriously.

Maybe it would be a good idea if the Turks weren't allowed to deny the Armenian Genocide, maybe Erdogan wouldn't have been able to get away with screwing up the country quite as much.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

The Holocaust happened, and the problem with deniers is they start being taken seriously.

And so what if the Holocaust deniers or revisionists started to be taken seriously? Is your point that no one has a right to speak if what they are saying is a lie?

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@Olivier5,

http://www.cpusa.org/

The Communist Party USA (CPUSA) is a far-left communist political party in the United States. Established in 1919 after a split in the Socialist Party of America, it has a long, complex history that is closely tied with the U.S. labor movement and the histories of communist parties worldwide.
-Wikipedia

The American Nazi Party (ANP) is an American political party founded by George Lincoln Rockwell. Its headquarters are in Arlington, Virginia. Rockwell founded the organization as the World Union of Free Enterprise National Socialists (WUFENS), but renamed it the American Nazi Party in 1960. The party is based largely upon the ideals and policies of Adolf Hitler's Nazi Party in Germany during the Nazi era, and embraced its uniforms and iconography.

Shortly after Rockwell's assassination in 1967, the organization broke up. Since the late 1960s, there have been a number of small groups that have used the name "American Nazi Party".
-Wikipedia

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I am very interested, suddenly, in a closer comparison in US and European legal and universally accepted definitions of free speech.

I'm sure, you know all and everthing about free speech in the USA.
The Council of Europe (= the organisation to uphold human rights, democracy, rule of law in Europe and promote European culture) has published a couple of brochures about the freedom of expression under the European convention of Human Rights - >link here<

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@Olivier5,

Yes, they are allowed in the US and in fact they are very active on the fringes on US politics and hide behind other cover organizations to gain membership. They go by many names but they are the ones behind many of the popular leftist US movements.

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@BillW,

Thanks. I read in wiki that even when hundreds of its members were jailed during McCarthyism, the Communist Party of the USA was never outlawed.

And also that George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the American Nazi Party, was killed by another nazi, John Patler, in 1967.

After his funeral on 30 August 1967, the Pentagon refused to allow Rockwell's body to be buried in the national cemetery at Culpeper because his followers refused to take off their swastika armbands before entering.

His body was returned to the party headquarters in Arlington, Virginia where it was disposed of during a secret Nazi funeral the following day.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/25/newsid_3031000/3031928.stm

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@Olivier5,

These parties rallies are marginalized by counter protests that are always many times more massive. They haven't got any traction - except now with tRump one of them. This is a situation we haven't faced before. Time will tell.

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