Rising fascism in the US

@Lash,

A2K is based in America so it's subject to American laws. It's down to the government in question to police its own laws otherwise Saudi Arabia could prosecute every porn site in the business.

In extremis Germany could block A2K but, as Oliver has pointed out, it's too small.

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@Olivier5,

You can watch - and post on - any website, which is online. No website is blocked, but a couple of anti-constitutional sites are shut down, on domestic (and EU) servers.

Posting criminal content is something totally different.

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@Olivier5,

You don't seem to be a bit concerned that it may start with Nazis--speech most of us can say, "Sure! I don't want to see that ****! Let them control that!"

And that mindless acquiescence to government control of that one type of speech one day, very surprisingly to you, reaches over and covers something vitally important to you. Anti-government speech?

Think ahead!

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

You don't seem to be a bit concerned that it may start with Nazis--speech most of us can say, "Sure! I don't want to see that ****! Let them control that!"

And that mindless acquiescence to government control of that one type of speech one day, very surprisingly to you, reaches over and covers something vitally important to you. Anti-government speech?

Think ahead!

They are long SCOTUS decisions that "Hate Speech" and you can't yell "FIRE" in a theatre are not protected speech under the 1st amendment. This does not weaken the Constitution, it strengthens it. Shows it is flexible, something I fear has been lost today due to the expansion of both wings of both parties.

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@BillW,

I think we're all clear on that, Bill, but you're definitely welcome to jump in.

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@BillW,

When rags such as "Breitbart" and National Enquirer are mainstreamed, this is a problem.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I think we're all clear on that, Bill, but you're definitely welcome to jump in.

You don't seem to be, in fact - you seem to be defending it. When that happens, the American way is at risk! And that is worth fighting for. That simply underlines the Rise in Fascism in America today.

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@BillW,

What do you think I'm defending?

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@Lash,

If you are writing about the situation in Germany (thanks for your concern),
you
a) should be aware about the differences between the US American common law system and German code law system (and, for instance, the role of the Bundesverfassungsgericht [Federal Constitutional Court], in Germany),
b) you should know the text of the relevant paragraphs of the German Criminal Code (and how they are enacted) [§86, §86a StGB),
and
c) you certainly should have some knowledge of the Administrative Law in Germany plus how EU-law might be relevant here.

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@Walter Hinteler,

I had to laugh, thanks. As much as you opine about America, you're quipping about my interest in Germany's speech...

But I do thank you for possibly limiting my search for pertinent information.

I am very interested, suddenly, in a closer comparison in US and European legal and universally accepted definitions of free speech. 🤓✌🏼

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I had to laugh, thanks. As much as you opine about America, you're quipping about my interest in Germany's speech...

Well, I did have courses about US-law when studying law at university, but I never would claim I (still) know how it works.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I am very interested, suddenly, in a closer comparison in US and European legal and universally accepted definitions of free speech. 🤓✌🏼

I suppose that there are quite a few reports/researches/articles in the various law magazines of the USA and the various countries in Europe.

I would suggest that you additionally look up how the term changed over the centuries in the numerous countries ... and languages. (In the Middle Ages, Walther von der Vogelweide [1170–1230] wrote: joch sint iedoch gedanke frî ["yet still thoughts are free"])

One view related to Germany here: Freedom of Expression in the Federal Republic ofbGermany

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@Lash,

You're right. I'm not concerned about it spreading to other topics because it has not so far spread to other topics, and these laws have been on the books for decades. They're not seen as problematic in Europe.

The newfound American interest in European laws re. free speech is an American phenomenon linked to the resurgence of nazism in US society. You guys are asking yourselves if you should do like the Europeans, and quite predictably, the terms of the debate are all set for the answer to be a reassuring "no we shouldn't".

Once you've been through a true fascist experience, maybe you'll think otherwise.

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@Walter Hinteler,

In Germany, freedom of expression has its limits (> freedom and equality rights, special and general rights, and civil and human rights can not be limitless according to our constitution ~ a basic rights examination [aka five steps examination] will be helpful).
Expression of an opinion may be prohibited if it is otherwise harmful to another person or to society. For example, you can't just insult someone else, even if you really don't like them. In principle, the protection of his or her honour is then more important than freedom of expression, even if there are exceptions in which one has to endure insults. The courts must always decide this on a case-by-case basis.

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@Olivier5,

It has actually spread to the right of women to dress accordingly to their religion in a couple of European countries... France? Burquinis are verboten, but wetsuits are ok? Don't dare deny the Holocaust but feel free to deny the Armenian genocide?

Who gets to choose? It's bullshit. PC running amok.

Religious freedom is important to some people, but since it's not your sacred cow, **** 'em? Ugh.

Neimoller.

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@Lash,

The Armenian Genocide doesn't have a lot of traction in Germany, the Holocaust is something else entirely. There's a very good reason why Holocaust denial is illegal in Germany.

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@izzythepush,

Actually, our ambassador is called to the Turkish foreign ministry quite often due to our standpoint about the Armenian Genocide.

It may be that we are involved in it (I do think, tangentially at least).
But actually - according to our criminal code and not to obscure foreign quotes - here the "Dissemination of propaganda material of unconstitutional organisations" (§86 StGB) and "Using symbols of unconstitutional organisations" (§86a StGB) is criminalised.

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@izzythepush,

That seems to be the popular consensus...

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I feel silly defending this small area of free speech when Google is reading my mail, selling pieces of it to corporations, and my government monitors key words in what I say here, to my family, etc, etc while killing children et al in the Middle East.

They are not the entity that should decide what can and cannot be said and heard.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

That seems to be the popular consensus...

Where?
(If you mean Germany, you ignored the reason that it isn't unconstitutional.)

1 Reply

Rising fascism in the US

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