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Rising fascism in the US

 
 
BillW
 
  4  
Tue 29 Nov, 2022 04:21 pm
Stewart Rhodes - leader of Oath keepers found guilty of Seditious Conspiracy!
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  3  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 08:28 am
Quote:
Elon Musk Is Finding Out That Free Speech Isn’t Rocket Science
It’s harder.

“This is a battle for the future of civilization. If free speech is lost even in America, tyranny is all that lies ahead.”

So says Elon Musk, the billionaire owner of Twitter, which remains, for now, the go-to place for political obsessives to argue over polarizing topics like gender therapy, school vouchers and Covid-19 policy. Musk has indicated that he wants to relax the platform’s rules around what people can and cannot say there — but doesn’t want to make it a “free-for-all hellscape.”

Seeking to balance those two impulses, Musk appears to be making it up as he goes along. He has said that Twitter users should be “able to speak freely within the bounds of the law,” but also that Twitter might temporarily suspend someone who tweets “something that is illegal or otherwise just destructive to the world” and either delete the offending tweet or make it “invisible.”

Even to those who closely follow free-speech debates around internet technology, it’s all pretty baffling.

“If anyone can get inside his head, I’d love to hear it,” said Corbin Barthold, an appellate lawyer for Tech Freedom, a nonpartisan think tank. “He seems to shift from free-speech absolutism until he decides he doesn’t like something.”

Trevor Timm, a co-founder and the executive director of Freedom of the Press Foundation, called Musk a “giant hypocrite” who is abusing the term “free speech.”

Timm worries, too, about how Musk will behave when authoritarian countries like China, where Tesla has vast business interests, lean on Twitter to crack down on dissidents or journalists on its platform.

Judging from his tweets — including, most recently, an image of Pepe the Frog, the unofficial mascot of the alt-right — Musk seems consumed by the previous ownership’s enforcement of company policies toward accounts like those of Donald Trump, Kanye West and Milo Yiannopoulos, whose tweets have violated Twitter’s rules around hate speech and, in the case of the former president, incitement to violence.

The mass restoration of suspended Twitter accounts has already begun. On Monday, Casey Newton and Zoe Schiffer reported that Twitter had started to reinstate “roughly 62,000 accounts with more than 10,000 followers” apiece. The list includes “one account that has over five million followers, and 75 accounts with over one million followers,” they added.

Musk also urged his followers to vote for Republicans in the midterm elections, and has said he would support Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida if he ran for president in 2024.

In so doing, Musk has allied himself with a politician — DeSantis — who has gone after his own company. And he is setting himself on a potential collision course with other tech companies at a time when looming Supreme Court rulings could destroy or at least fundamentally change his business.

Twitter v. Apple
Twitter constraining what its users can say on its platform is very different, legally speaking, from what the government can do to police speech.

As Ben Wizner, the director of the A.C.L.U.’s Speech, Privacy and Technology Project, has put it, if Musk “decides tomorrow that any speech that criticizes Tesla is going to be banned from Twitter, he absolutely has the right to do that.” (Musk, by the way, is an A.C.L.U. donor.)

A lot of speech on social media platforms like Twitter falls into a category of what Daphne Keller, a Stanford scholar who was formerly a senior lawyer at Google, calls “lawful but awful.” She defines it as “speech that is offensive or morally repugnant to many people but protected by the First Amendment.”

But as Musk is learning, the First Amendment can’t force advertisers or business partners to agree to work with you once you change the rules in ways they don’t like.

Musk’s relaxing of Twitter’s moderation policies threatens to run afoul of Apple, which in the past has booted applications from its online store over safety concerns. It suspended Parler, a Twitter clone popular on the far right, after the assault on the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

When CBS News recently asked Tim Cook, the chief executive of Apple, whether the company might do the same to Twitter, he said he didn’t expect that to happen because Twitter had promised to keep moderating harmful content.

“I don’t think anyone wants hate speech on their platform, so I’m counting on them to continue to do that,” Cook said. Judging from his body language, however, he did not appear especially confident in that assessment.

On Monday, Musk claimed that “Apple has also threatened to withhold Twitter from its App Store, but won’t tell us why.”

He didn’t offer any evidence for that claim, but DeSantis warned that if Apple removed Twitter from the App Store, “That would be a huge, huge mistake, and it would be a really raw exercise of monopolistic power that I think would merit a response from the United States Congress.”

That’s unlikely; Congress is hopelessly divided over how to regulate social media companies, with very little common ground between the two parties. But now that Republicans will take control of the House next year, they can hold hearings and at least make some noise.

Here comes the Supreme Court
If there’s little prospect that Congress can do much — other than complain — to alter how platforms like Twitter handle speech issues that’s not true of the Supreme Court.

Four cases are either already before the court or soon will be and, as Keller noted in an interview, “that might throw everything we think we know about the legal obligations of the platforms into disarray.”

Tech companies are on the opposite side of DeSantis over a Florida law, known as S.B. 7072, that bars social media companies from removing the accounts of any “journalistic enterprise” or political candidate. It’s on hold, under a federal injunction that was upheld by the 11th Circuit.

In signing that law, DeSantis cast it as a blow to “Silicon Valley elites,” whom he compared to tyrants in Cuba and Venezuela

A similar law in Texas was upheld by a three-judge panel of the Fifth Circuit but is likewise frozen for now. “We reject the platforms’ attempt to extract a freewheeling censorship right from the Constitution’s free speech guarantee,” wrote Judge Andrew Oldham, a Trump appointee. “The platforms are not newspapers. Their censorship is not speech.”

When there is a split in the lower courts, the Supreme Court often steps in. Florida has appealed to a seemingly sympathetic Justice Clarence Thomas, who oversees the 11th Circuit, to take up its case.

Ordinarily, most legal experts would expect the Supreme Court to overturn both laws as an illegal attempt to infringe upon the free-speech prerogatives of a private company. Lower courts have repeatedly batted away dozens of similar attempts to do so. But Thomas might have allies in Justices Neil Gorsuch and Samuel Alito, and possibly others, in upholding them in at least some aspects.

The question might hinge on whether the court views social media platforms more like newspapers or more like radio and television. In 1974, the Supreme Court ruled that a newspaper can’t be forced to publish replies to one of its editorials. But the court has also ruled that cable companies can be required to carry local broadcast channels. The tech companies point to another decision, Reno v. A.C.L.U., that established that internet platforms are technologically distinct enough that they must be regulated differently.

In an amicus brief opposing the Florida law, Tech Freedom, the think tank, called it “a First Amendment train wreck.” If it were upheld, the group’s Barthold added in our interview, “It would amount to a huge burden on the platform. I don’t think Elon Musk would be happy with it.”

The Supreme Court has already agreed to hear two other cases that could touch on whether tech companies can be held liable when their recommendation algorithms recommend terrorist recruitment videos. Twitter is a party to one of them, and filed a reply brief arguing that upholding the Ninth Circuit’s ruling would be “harmful.”

Depending on how the court rules in those two cases, it could radically alter Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, a 26-word provision of the 1996 law that prevents internet platforms from being treated as “the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.”

When it comes to those cases, “it’s much harder to game out what the justices are going to do,” Keller said. “It cuts across political divides in a way that the Texas and Florida cases don’t.”

Chris Marchese, a lawyer for NetChoice, an industry group that is a litigant in the Texas and Florida cases, said there was no sign that Twitter had pulled back on its support since Musk’s takeover.

But there’s also no sign that any of these legal threats to his business are on Musk’s radar, other than a glancing reference in leaked meeting notes to his seeming “very knowledgeable” about communications law.

“If Elon Musk really cared about free speech,” Timm said, “he would call up his new buddy Ron DeSantis and ask him to stop attacking Section 230.”


nyt
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 12:07 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
One of the events forecast is the buy-up by governments and their subsidiaries of arable land and farms, so that people will be dependent on government for food.
[... ... ...]
I’m well aware of the reasons given.
Also, well aware of the current ‘optional’ status.

Still bears watching.
I sincerely doubt that you are "well aware of the reasons given".

The Netherland's government actions have been forced by a court case in 2019 that said the PAS-melding, a kind of nitrogen futures trading scheme for farmers and industrial firms, was illegal because it could not be shown that the development would not damage EU-protected natural reserves known as Natura 2000 areas.

The court ruling led to a temporary building stop and 100km/h limit on roads, and made about 2,500 farms illegal at a stroke. A second Raad van State ruling this month said Dutch building projects needed nitrogen permission, putting government plans to build 900,000 desperately needed homes, windfarms and vital infrastructure at a standstill.

Netherland's government is offering to buy out up to 3,000 “peak polluter” farms and major industrial polluters in an attempt to reduce ammonia and nitrogen oxide emissions that are illegal under EU law.
The group of 2,000 to 3,000 “peak polluters” – who are “mostly farmers” – will be offered a final set of choices: innovate to drastically reduce emissions, transition to a new kind of business, extend in ways that reduce their impact, relocate or “voluntarily stop”.

Top industrial polluters include the businesses Tata Steel, Schiphol airport, refineries owned by Shell, BP and Esso, Dow chemicals and industrial companies such as Olam Cacoa and Cargill Cacoa.

Despite previous voluntary buyout schemes, only about 30 farmers stopped. New figures show that animal numbers have remained more or less the same in the last decade, with more than five times as many farmed animals in the Netherlands as its 17.8 million people.

Sources: de Vilkskrant, de Telegraaf,
Planbureau voor de Leefomgeving
.
Lash
 
  -2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 12:38 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
You were sincerely wrong again.
____________
This ‘land buy story’ was written about years ago. I read about it, and it was filled with information I didn’t believe, but I felt the accusations were made by people whose other accusations were being proven correct, so I decided to follow the story to see if anything came of it. There are a lot of new farmers and new homesteaders who meet together or have a growing presence on YouTube who all believe the same thing.

The part I didn’t believe was that climate change was a construct in order for government to press much deeper controls over the global population.

I feel pretty confident that I see evidence of a changing climate.
_________________

The Great Reset or New World Order or sometimes now Build Back Better rhetoric that we’ve heard from many world leaders has been interpreted by some to be a clamp down on the global populace.

Years ago, I read that climate change was a construct to buy up farmland with the ultimate goal of making the population completely dependent on their government for food. To basically enslave them. It smacked of ignorant Republican conspiracy theory, so I dismissed it.

It sounded nuts to me, but because this group of people also forecasted a pandemic years before it happened—a major health crisis that the government would use to tighten control—I keep an eye on their information.

They also warn the same with housing—and I’ve seen huge blocks of housing being purchased by ridiculously wealthy companies. Black rock has found its way into a few of my posts over the years. The theory is that soon regular people will be priced out of home ownership and, again, reliant on the government for housing.

______________
So, I have been following what’s happening in the Netherlands, and it conforms to the theory I read, forwarded years ago.

I’m still not convinced, but it’s more than a little surreal.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 12:49 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
This ‘land buy story’ was written about years ago.
To what do you refer here? To what I wrote or to my sources?


Lash wrote:
You were sincerely wrong again.

The EU's clean air policy is years old, indeed.
And that's the reason for the two Raad van Stae's rulings: "voldoet niet aan het Europese natuurbeschermingsrecht".


In my state, around 1.4 million tonnes of manure were exported annually from the Netherlands until 2016 - mostly illegally at night.
This only changed when a new manure regulation with tougher penalties came into force in 2017.

And with that, the problem of the Dutch polluters increased.
Lash
 
  -2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 01:15 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
LOL, there’s an excellent metaphor in there somewhere.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 01:26 pm
@Lash,
I am glad to have made you laugh.

But do you have anything else to say or could you at least answer my questions?
Lash
 
  -1  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 01:53 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I am glad to have made you laugh.

But do you have anything else to say or could you at least answer my questions?

A general claim that climate change would be used to force compulsory land and farm sales has been forecasted for about a decade, among other similar claims regarding government clampdowns on citizens.

Whenever I noticed a headline about any of these scenarios happening, I did a little reading around it. Same with this compulsory sale of peoples’ farms in the Netherlands. I noticed it. I read about it.

My comments were just to communicate to you that my interest in the compulsory sale of peoples’ farms in the Netherlands—and anywhere—was much more than a passing interest.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 01:57 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
A general claim that climate change would be used to force compulsory land and farm sales has been forecasted for about a decade, among other similar claims regarding government clampdowns on citizens.
So you did read the EU Nature Conservation Laws and came to above conclusion?

Why, do you think, have the other 26 EU-countries none, less or not so severe problems with these EU-laws?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 02:18 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
A general claim that climate change would be used to force compulsory land and farm sales has been forecasted for about a decade, among other similar claims regarding government clampdowns on citizens.
I foresee that you'll again will tell me that I'm deadly wrong etc.
But hopefully I will make you laugh again.

The Administrative Law Division of the Netherland's highest court put a line through the permits for livestock farms which used the PAS(Programma Aanpak Stikstof) in the 29 May 2019 ruling.

So did so, because ...
In May 2017, they referred questions to the European Court of Justice about the PAS, as the court doubted whether the programme met the conditions of the European Habitats Directive.
In November 2018, the European Court ruled that even with the PAS, the positive effects of the measures included in that programme must be established in advance. Only then can the government authorise a new activity.
Because the PAS does not meet that condition, it cannot be used as a basis for permission for new activities. Moreover, the PAS also authorises activities on the basis of measures in natural areas needed to prevent their deterioration. This too is not allowed.
The court's conclusion is that the substantiation of the PAS is flawed.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Wed 30 Nov, 2022 03:42 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

There is a group of people I know that have been forecasting events around a ‘New World Order’ or ‘Great Reset’ since 2017 (that I know of).

One of the events forecast is the buy-up by governments and their subsidiaries of arable land and farms, so that people will be dependent on government for food.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2022/11/compulsory-purchase-will-be-an-option-to-close-down-farms-ministers/

Excerpt:

There will be no compulsory purchases as yet, but if enough farmers do not come forward, ‘with pain in the heart’ we will have to move towards compulsory purchase, nitrogen minister Christianne van der Wal told MPs on Friday. ‘There is no better offer coming.’ The farms and other businesses which need to close will be told in January and ministers will assess if enough have come forward in the autumn. By removing some 2,000 to 3,000 sources of nitrogen compound pollution, nature will be able to recover, farms without proper permits can be legalised and construction can resume, ministers say.

Read more at DutchNews.nl:
____________________
I’m well aware of the reasons given.
Also, well aware of the current ‘optional’ status.


Still bears watching.


This is all I need to know about this right now.
Still bears watching.

I’m not attempting to convince anyone of anything.
Yet.
Because I’m not convinced of anything around this.
Yet.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 07:12 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

It was refreshing to see someone provide the single piece of evidence I always ask for rather than whining about how I should be the one to support their argument.

It's also refreshing to see a Trump-supporting conservative who accepts the science behind vaccines and doesn't equate public health measures with "communism". For the record, oralloy accepts vaccine science as well.

The science of vaccines is centuries old and even existed in a primitive form in the time of the Founders. Every vaccine produced for sale is tested on thousands of people by testing companies not beholden to the manufacturer. The idea that there is some conspiracy to cover up vaccine dangers involving tens of thousands of doctors and scientists all over the world is preposterous. I often argue this point on the Internet. I have had five Covid vaccine shots including the new one that covers omicron.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 07:25 am
@Brandon9000,
Edward Jenner gave the first vaccination.

He was British, he had **** all to do with your founding fathers.

You can't help yourself can you, it's one lie after another.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 08:20 am
@izzythepush,
Before Jennings convinced other doctors of vaccination, the so-called 'variolation' was used, first in Asian countries, then in Europe and from there to America (1706/07) first mentioned in Boston).

Jenner coined the term vaccination (Latin vacca = cow) for smallpox vaccination.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 08:35 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I don't know why someone would use such a misleading phrase like "time of the founders" instead of late 18th Century which is what historians would use.

Such terminolgy implies vaccinates were American and ignores and insults the work of Jenner.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 10:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
A variation of smallpox called cowpox later appeared in cows. In 1000 AD in China, people began to use the pus from cows with cowpox to inoculate humans against smallpox. This was done either by rubbing pus from a cow pustule into a cut on an arm, or inhaling it through the nose. While most people typically got symptoms of smallpox after doing this, they rarely died from the disease. On average, three out of 10 people were dying of smallpox, so this was a public health victory. Because of the success of this concept, it caught on and spread to different civilizations, whose scientists started building on the back of it.

source
0 Replies
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 12:56 pm
Quote:
Social media users responded with outrage following a report that a Florida school denied a mother permission to give a presentation about Hannukah to her son's fifth-grade class.

Pasco County Schools reversed that decision as of Wednesday evening and said they would allow Rachel Long to do her presentation about the Jewish Festival of Lights once she's met with teachers and relevant faculty.

Nonetheless, there has been anger about the initial refusal online and some Twitter users took aim specifically at Republican Governor Ron DeSantis.

A Longleaf Elementary School teacher cited Florida's Parents' Bill of Rights, which was signed into law by DeSantis on June 30, 2021, when speaking to Long.

Text messages obtained by news outlet Florida Politics show the fifth-grade teacher making reference to the legislation.

"As per discussions with the team and Admin, the new Parent Bill of Rights (sic) obligates us to follow the 5th Grade Standards as written," the teacher messaged Long. "At this time, a Chanukah presentation is not in our standards."

Long replied, asking: "Then, I assume, no Christmas activities will be done?" but did not receive an immediate reply. Speaking to Florida Politics, Long noted that Christmas-related activities were taking place at the school and it had been decorated for the Christian holiday.

Long had given the presentation annually since her eldest son, who is now in 10th grade, was a preschooler and told Florida Politics that it did not include any religious content. Instead, she would read from a book explaining Hanukkah, give the kids dreidels to play with, and share traditional food eaten during the holiday.

Daniel Uhlfelder, the founder of the anti-DeSantis group Remove Ron, tweeted: "Don't say Hanukkah in DeSantis's free Florida" and shared a video from local news reporting on the topic.

The Parents' Bill of Rights says that parents have the right to "direct the education and care" of their minor children as well as the right "to direct the upbringing and the moral or religious training" of those children.


newsweek

I wondered if all this new religious freedom would extend to all the various religious and moral beliefs.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  2  
Thu 1 Dec, 2022 01:40 pm
Yah, there is a hope for the resurrection of the Druids!
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 06:34 am
Leftist voices re Biden’s union busting bad faith to railroad workers and other topics

https://youtu.be/ItyoL8h5g1k
hightor
 
  4  
Fri 2 Dec, 2022 07:11 am
@Lash,
There'd have been a lot louder howling from a much larger swathe of the political spectrum if the strike had brought havoc into the economy. (It's not "union busting" until scabs are hired and that decision will be made by the rail companies, not Biden.) The railroads, seeking maximum efficiency, developed inflexible systems that deny workers the sorts of options for sick leave that are allowed in other jobs. Provisions for sick leave should be universal, a government-guaranteed right, not something awarded, out of fear, only to workers with the power to shut down the economy. If this threatened strike convinces politicians to craft legislation to make sick leave as much of a worker's right as overtime pay or a lunch break then it may have a positive outcome after all.
 

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