Israeli firm bids on European wall to keep immigrants out...

Yes, the aim of the Arabs is the destruction of the Jewish State of that there is no doubt.

I want to ask all of those in this thread that have thrown up their hands and declared that the palestinians are beasts who want only dead Jews and the destruction of Israel, what's the point? Does that mean that the problem can't be solved and we should let these two groups of people kill each other indefinitely? Is it a justification for genocide or the forced mass migration of an entire population? What, exactly, is your solution?

Quote:

the Israelis want to be left alone to have a country that isn't terrorized everyday by people wanting to exterminate them.

Yeah, well, there are two little problems with this.

First, the fact that Israel is located upon the holy grounds of not just Judaism but Christianity and to a certain extent the Muslims as well.

Now, when you set up camp on other people's holy ground, and then tell them they aren't going to be able to visit them unrestricted, it makes people rather angry. Israel has to realize and deal with this.

Cycloptichorn,
As you wrote the above, I have to assume that you do not know:
The only time access to holy sites was restricted was by Jordan when the West Bank was under Jordanian rule to Jews (not simply Israelis) who were prohibited from visiting any holy sites in Jordan, particularly the Western Wall and the Temple Mount, which is the site of both the First and Second Temples of the Jewish religion. This site is the place that is specifically mentioned by Jews in every single prayer service that is ever prayed by any Jew anywhere at any time in the last two thousand years.
Israel does not restrict Muslims from visiting Israel, they restrict Palestinians and other undesirables who may want to murder people.
There are over a million non-Jewish Arabs who are Israeli citizens.

Secondly, when Israel 'was made,' a lot of people were displaced. They weren't too happy about this fact. They want their land back, and they really have every right to feel that way - after all, the process in which it was stripped from them was hardly legal.

I assume that you believe that the Jews that were displaced before and after Israel became acountry should have the same rights?
How would you go about that?

Israel won't give the land back. They won't give them equal rights, because then Israel wouldn't be a Jewish state - they would be a minority, again. But do you know what? I don't give a damn if a Jewish state exists or not. Israel really has no right to be where it is today.

Ah...
Where should Israel be? Wisconsin? Holland? Auschwitz?
What country has a right to be "where it is today?" France? Russia?Rwanda? Saudi Arabia? China?
There are over a million non-Jewish Arabs who are Israeli citizens.
They do not want to live in a Palestinian state.

The reason this whole thing is such a mess can be directly traced back to the major countries after WWII refusing to deal with the problem with displaced Jews following the Holocaust. They tried a cute solution and look how much hate and trouble it has brought today.

Absolutely. Except the cute solution they tried included the creation of Saudi Arabia; Jordan; Iraq; Lebanon and Syria. They also tried to create Israel and Palestine.
After Israel defended itself from being annihilated, Jordan ate the rest of Palestine and Egypt ate Gaza.
So much for the cute solution.

I feel as if there are a ton of Israelis and supporters of Israel that would like to see every man, woman and child of Palestine dead rather than deal with them as equals.

Cycloptichorn

A solution to the problem would have to be predicated on the supposition that Palestinians desire to live in peace with the Jewish state of Israel.
Where as you and others seem to believe that Israel could solve this dilemna "if only they would....." do something or other - move; retreat; leave; die; something...

The difficulty is not in convincing Israel to give up land or hostilities or recognize the existence of Palestinians,

The difficulty lies in the simple fact that the majority of Palestinians do not want to recognize Israel right to exist as a Jewish state - which has over a million and a quarter non-Jewish Arabs living as Israeli citizens.
The difficulty lies in the simple fact that the majority of Palestinians who do not want to recognize a Jewish state with over a million non-Jewish Israelis living in it, want a Palestinian state that is Jew free.

The solution?
The obvious ones are the ones proposed here by those you find detestable - build a fence; remove the Palestinians; assassinate their terrorist leaders - these are not optimum solutions, but they do result in less death of innocent people who happen to be the targets of Palestinian terrorists.

A real solution?
How about getting the Palestinians to give up all violence and claims to be able to dictate to Israel?
How about getting them to peacefully declare strikes and non-involvement with Israel ala Ghandi or Martin Luther King?
How about getting the Palestinians to insist on their human rights by demonstrating that they are more concerned with the lives of their children than with murdering innocent people?
I would absolutely guarantee that Israel would give in to most Palestinian demands within a year of such actions.
They would have a free and independent country supported by the world and Israel within five years of such actions.
And, if such actions were to continue, Israel would cease to exist as a Jewish state within 10 years.
That is a real solution.

But, perhaps the Palestinians are incapable of gaining their freedom and dignity in such a fashion.
What do you think?

I also wanted to respond to your long list of 'terrorist attacks' in the nineties from another post. Firstly, I wonder if you have a list of all the times that settlers opened fire inside mosques or lynched palestinians.

You obviously feel very strongly about this issue and I'm guessing it is personal for you. But for those of us who do not have a personal stake in the outcome, other than a desire for peace, it seems pretty clear that it takes two to tango.

By positing the above question, you are tacitly stating that you believe that the Israelis and the Palestinians are both equally guilty of deliberating murdering innocents.

Israel does not restrict Muslims from visiting Israel, they restrict Palestinians and other undesirables who may want to murder people.

Now, when you set up camp on other people's holy ground, and then tell them they aren't going to be able to visit them unrestricted, it makes people rather angry. Israel has to realize and deal with this. (referring to the palestinians, the original point of the piece.)

Ah...
Where should Israel be? Wisconsin? Holland? Auschwitz?

And that is your problem. They are not equals. Are they your equal Cyclop? Have you sponsored a Palestinian family? Have you protested to Jordan and Lebanon and Syria to accept the Palestinians as equals? To succor them and extend the hand of equality?

Most Israelis and supporters of Israel would like to see every man, woman and child of Palestine as equals, now, today, and as speedily as possible.

It is personal because after 9/11, I realized that there were a very large, very amoral, group of people who would like nothing better than to see me and everyone I know, dead.