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Israeli firm bids on European wall to keep immigrants out...

 
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:06 am
au1929 wrote:
Brown.
Quote:

In a civilized society we have to deal with this risk. You will remain out of prison until we can show you committed a crime. Taking away your rights simply because I think you look like a serial killer is barbaric.



Try telling that to the brother, sister, mother or father of someone blown up in a terrorist bombing in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. Or gunned down in their own home. Call it racial profiling or what ever else you will but were I an Israeli I would keep those borders closed till hell froze over. Or at least till a real peace has evolved. In addition I would build a fence as high and as impenetrable as possible.


Wow. Well do you know how many Palestinian civilians, including children have died over the last 4 years at the hands of the IDF? It's more than 3000, 12% of those are under the age of 15. What do you tell their relatives -- sorry but your children are dogs who deserved to die for the security of Israel? Is killing palestinians more acceptable than killing Israeli's because palestinians expect to be killed and Israeli's don't?

Quote:

As to the question regarding how you would tell a terrorist from a peaceful Palestinian. I would say a peaceful Palestinian is one that was kept out of Israel.


Couldn't this be the same argument, but in reverse, that those who want to 'push Israel into the sea' would use? A peaceful Israeli is one that is kept out of Palestine?
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:06 am
ebrown_p wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
FD, do you have a special mirrior that tells you which Palestinian is or will be a suicide bomber?


I have no mirror that would tell me that you are not a serial killer.

In a civilized society we have to deal with this risk. You will remain out of prison until we can show you commited a crime. Taking away your rights simply because I think you look like a serial killer is barbaric.


Nonetheless, in the real world, there ARE such things as group crimes and this is particularly obvious in cases such as that of the "palestinians". These are the people who train children to kill Israelis and be suicide bombers from early childhood, who were all out ullullullating or whatever they call it, shooting off AKs and passing out candy on 9-11, and who celebrate every sort of terrorist atrocity one of them commits, i.e. who we see out celebrating acts which normal people would be ashamed of.

Then again, if you don't like the idea of banishment, somebody like Ariel Sharon could always try what Julius Caesar did with large collections of criminals like that, i.e. decimation, i.e. line them up and kill every tenth one. Ceasar no doubt viewed that as being a nice guy figuring if that didn't work and produce some sort of attitude improvement he could always come back and massacre the idiots next year...
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:09 am
swolf, I just wonder what you would do if you happened to be born a palestinian.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:16 am
Rick
Swolf has pie in the sky solutions. Sure you can eliminate a problem by removing the irritant. But is it realistic in this instance? Of course not.
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:17 am
My point was, au1929, that it's not only realistic, but it's just against basic human rights. Removing an entire people for the crimes of a minority? Absurd - and racist.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:20 am
Quote:

Nonetheless, in the real world, there ARE such things as group crimes


No there aren't. In any civilized society people are punished for crimes they commit as individuals. This is reflected in our constitution, our laws.

Quote:

Ariel Sharon could always try what Julius Caesar did with large collections of criminals like that, i.e. decimation, i.e. line them up and kill every tenth one


Extermination, decimation... there seems to be a theme here.

FreeDuck wrote:

swolf, I just wonder what you would do if you happened to be born a palestinian.


I don't wonder. He/she would still advocate violent acts (extermination and decimation). Only the targets of violence would be different.

The Palestinian versions of swolf are all in Hamas.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:23 am
Rick

Comment--
Racist, the most overused word in the english language.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:24 am
ebrown_p wrote:
The Palestinian versions of swolf are all in Hamas.


Excellent.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 09:25 am
au1929 wrote:
Rick

Comment--
Racist, the most overused word in the english language.


Oh, I don't know, I think right now 'terrorism' and 'propaganda' run a close second and third, respectively.
0 Replies
 
Moishe3rd
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 10:11 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Moishe3rd wrote:
Feeduck wrote:
Quote:
The Israeli's have the power to stop this thing, and they can do it without a fence.


Question

Well, that's an interesting statement.
What power does Israel have to stop "this thing?"


Well, they could withdraw their troops from PA territories.

That has been tried. The Palestinians enjoyed self rule so much that they decided to see if they could drive Israelis out of the the rest of Israel.
The Palestinians had their own police force, armed and paid for by Israel.
The only small problem was that the police force decided to go into murder as a sideline.


They could stop demolishing palestinian homes and farms and stop settlement activity.

That does not give Israel any "power" whatsoever. Demolishing homes and farms is better than demolishing people.

They could accept the 1967 borders and move on.

There are no 1967 borders.
If you believe that there are 1967 borders, what do you base this upon?
The only country in the region that even vaguely accepted the "borders" in 1967 was Israel.
Nobody else accepted them.
Israel's power was increased when they acknowledged the desire of the surrounding countries to eradicate them and went beyond the cease fire lines of 1967.
It will be increased again when the surrounding countries and the Palestinians accept Israel's power.
Until then, without recognition that Israel has the "power," Israel has no power to change attitudes.


They could begin to compensate those palestinians whose homes were destroyed or taken from them.

They often do. They do not compensate families of murderers whose homes were destroyed.
You think they should?
This has not led to a noticeable increase in Israeli power.


It's possible that many of them might even take that money and move to Jordan, and Jordan might even accept them if they come with resources rather than as a group of refugees.

I like it. Snowball's chance in hell, but I like it. Let's implement.

They could vote Sharon out of office since he is the one that started this intifada and he seems to have no interest in making peace.

Hmmmm. This is a rather telling statement on your part. You believe that murder is justified if someone pisses you off.
I disagree.
And there lies our different perceptions of reality.
Murdering innocents is never justified.
Arafat and the Palestinians began the current intifada.
Your reality is a bit skewed.



During the 90s there was peace because there was hope for a final settlement.

Oy vey izmir...
You need to read a bit more.
During the 90's:

The number of people killed by Palestinian terrorists in the five years immediately after the Oslo accord (256) was greater than the number killed in the 15 years preceding the agreement (216). During the six years of the first uprising (Dec. 9, 1987 to Sep. 9, 1993), 172 people were murdered. More than 900 Israelis have been killed during the "al-Aqsa uprising" beginning in September 2000.

Since the Oslo accords,
Fatal Terrorist Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles
(September 1993)
From the signing of the Declaration of Principles between Israel and the PLO on September 13, 1993, until September 2000, 256 civilians and soldiers were killed in terrorist attacks in Israel.

Sep 24 93 Yigal Vaknin was stabbed to death in an orchard near the trailer home where he lived near the village of Basra. A squad of the HAMAS's Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 9 93 Dror Forer and Aran Bachar were murdered by terrorists in Wadi Kelt in the Judean Desert. The Popular Front and the Islamic Jihad 'Al-Aqsa Squads' each publicly claimed responsibility.

Oct 24 93 Two IDF soldiers, Staff Sgt. (res.) Ehud Rot, age 35, and Sgt. Ilan Levi, age 23, were killed by a HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squad. The two entered a Subaru with Israeli license plates outside a Jewish settlement in the Gaza Strip, whose passengers were apparently terrorists disguised as Israelis. Following a brief struggle, the soldiers were shot at close range and killed. Hamas publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 29 93 Chaim Mizrahi, resident of Beit-El, was kidnapped by three terrorists from a poultry farm near Ramallah. He was murdered and his body burned. Three Fatah members were convicted of the murder on July 27, 1994.

Nov 7 93 Efraim Ayubi of Kfar Darom, Rabbi Chaim Druckman's personal driver, was shot to death by terrorists near Hebron. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the murder.

Nov 9 93 Salman 'Id el-Hawashla, age 38, an Israeli Bedouin of the Abu Rekaik tribe who was driving a car with Israeli plates, was killed by three armed men driving a truck hijacked from the Gaza municipality, in a deliberate head-on collision.

Nov 17 93 Sgt. 1st Cl. Chaim Darina, age 37, was stabbed by a Gazan terrorist while seated at the cafeteria at the Nahal Oz road block at the entrance to the Gaza Strip. The perpetrator was apprehended. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the murder.

Dec 1 93 Shalva Ozana, age 23, and Yitzhak Weinstock, age 19, were shot to death by terrorists from a moving vehicle, while parked on the side of the road to Ramallah because of engine trouble. Weinstock died of his wounds the following morning. Iz a-Din al Kassam claimed responbility for the attack, stating that it was carried out in retaliation for the killing by Israeli forces of Imad Akel, a wanted HAMAS leader in Gaza.

Dec 5 93 David Mashrati, a reserve soldier, was shot and killed by a terrorist attempting to board a bus on route 641 at the Holon junction. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki gorup claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 6 93 Mordechai Lapid and his son Shalom Lapid, age 19, were shot to death by terrorists near Hebron. HAMAS publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 22 93 Eliahu Levin and Meir Mendelovitch were killed by shots fired at their car from a passing vehicle in the Ramallah area. HAMAS claimed responsibility.

Dec 23 93 Anatoly Kolisnikov, an Ashdod resident employed as a relief watchman at a construction site there, was stabbed to death while on duty.

Dec 24 93 Lieut.Col. Meir Mintz, commander of the IDF special forces in the Gaza area, was shot and killed by terrorists in an ambush on his jeep at the T-junction in Gaza. The HAMAS Iz a-Din al Kassam squads publicly claimed responsibility for the attack.

Dec 31 93 Chaim Weizman and David Bizi were found murdered in a Ramle apartment. ID cards of two Gaza residents were found in the apartment, together with a leaflet of the Popular Front 'Red Eagle' group, claiming responsibility for the murder.

Jan 12 94 Moshe Becker of Rishon Le-Zion was stabbed to death by three Palestinian employees while working in his orchard. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the murder.

Jan 14 94 Grigory Ivanov was stabbed to death by a terrorist in the industrial zone at the Erez junction, near the Gaza Strip. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 9 94 Ilan Sudri, a taxi driver, was kidnapped and murdered while returning home from work. The Islamic Jihad Shekaki group sent a message to the news agencies claiming responsibility for the murder.

Feb 10 94 Naftali Sahar, a citrus grower, was murdered by blows to his head. His body was found in his orchard near Kibbutz Na'an.

Feb 13 94 Noam Cohen, age 28, member of the General Security Service, was shot and killed in an ambush on his car. Two of his colleagues who were also in the vehicle suffered moderate injuries. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 17 94 Yuval Golan, stabbed on December 29, 1993 by a terrorist near Adarim in the Hebron area, died of his wounds.

Feb 19 94 Zipora Sasson, resident of Ariel and five months pregnant, was killed on the trans-Samaria highway in an ambush by shots fired at her car. The terrorists were members of HAMAS.

Feb 25 94 Sam Eisenstadt, age 80, was assaulted with an axe in the center of Kfar Saba. He died of his wounds shortly afterwards.

Mar 23 94 Victor Lashchiver, employed as a guard at the Income Tax offices in East Jerusalem, was shot and killed near Damascus Gate on his way to work. The Popular Front claimed responsibility for the attack.

Mar 29 94 Yitzhak Rothenberg, age 70 of Petah Tikva, was attacked on a construction site by two residents of Khan Yunis by axe blows to the head. He died several days later of his wounds. The murderers, apprehended the next day, stated that they carried out the attack in order to clear themselves of suspected collaboration with the Israeli authorities.

Mar 31 94 Yosef Zandani, age 28 of Bnei Ayish, near Gedera, was found murdered in his apartment. Near the body was a leaflet of the DFLP "Red Star", explaining that the murder was carried out in revenge for the shooting of one of its members by an Israeli citizen. The Israeli acted in self-defense.

Apr 6 94 Asher Attia, 48, of Afula, bus driver; Vered Mordechai, 13, of Afula; Maya Elharar, 17, of Afula; Ilana Schreiber, 45, a teacher from Kibbutz Nir David; Meirav Ben-Moshe, 16, of Afula; Ayala Vahaba, 40, a teacher from Afula; and Fadiya Shalabi, 25, of Iksal were killed in a car-bomb attack on a bus in the center of Afula. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack. Ahuva Cohen Onalla, 37, wounded in the attack, died of her wounds on April 25.

Apr 7 94 Yishai Gadassi, age 32 of Kvutzat Yavne, was shot and killed at a hitchhiking post at the Ashdod junction by a member of HAMAS. The terrorist was killed by bystanders at the scene.

Apr 13 94 Rahamim Mazgauker, 34, of Hadera; David Moyal, 26 of Ramat Gan, an Egged mechanic; Daga Perda, 44, who immigrated from Ethiopia in 1991; Bilha Butin, 49, of Hadera; and Sgt. Ari Perlmutter, 19, of Ir Ovot in the Arava were killed in a suicide bombing attack on a bus in the central bus station of Hadera. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Apr 21 94 The body of officer cadet Shahar Simani, 20, of Ashkelon, was found stabbed to death near the roadside at the village of Beit Hanina, north of Jerusalem. He had been kidnapped while hitchhiking in the south.

May 17 94 Rafael Yairi (Klumfenbert), 36, of Kiryat Arba, and Margalit Ruth Shohat, 48, of Ma'ale Levona, were killed when their car was fired upon by by terrorists in a passing car near Beit Haggai, south of Hebron.

May 20 94 Staff Sgt. Moshe Bukra, 30, and Cpl. Erez Ben-Baruch, 24, were shot dead by HAMAS terrorists at a roadblock one kilometer south of the Erez checkpoint in the Gaza Strip.

Jul 7 94 Sarit Prigal, 17, was shot to death when terrorists opened fire from a passing car near the entrance to Kiryat Arba.

Jul 7 94 The body of Arye Frankenthal, 20, from Moshav Gimzo near Lod, who had left his base in the south the previous day, was found stabbed and shot near the Arab village of Kafr Akab, near Ramallah.

Jul 19 94 Lt. Guy Ovadia, 23, of Kibbutz Yotvata, was fatally wounded in an ambush near Rafiah. HAMAS took responsibility for the attack, saying it was "a response to the massacre at the Erez checkpoint".

Jul 25 94 Border policeman Sgt.-Maj. Jacques Attias, 24, died of his wounds after being shot by Palestinian policemen during the riots at Erez checkpoint on July 17.

Aug 2 94 Yoram Sakuri, 30, of Kiryat Netafim in Samaria, died of stab wounds suffered when a terrorist broke into his home on July 1st.

Aug 14 94 Ron Soval, 18, of Lehavim, north of Beersheba, was shot to death in an ambush near Kissufim junction in the Gaza Strip. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Aug 26 94 Shlomo Kapach, 22, of Holon and Gil Revah, 21, of Bat Yam, elevator technicians, were murdered at a Ramle building site. Israel has requested the extradition of the suspected killers from the Palestinian Authority.

Sep 4 94 Sgt. Victor Shichman, 24, was killed at the Morag junction in the southern Gaza Strip while on patrol, from shots fired from a vehicle bearing Palestinian license plates.

Sep 94 Natasha Ivanov, 32, of Ashdod was strangled to death. In March 2001, a Palestinian arrested for being in Israel illegally, admitted to carrying out the murder in order to gain acceptance into a terrorist organization.

Oct 9 94 Ma'ayan Levy, 19, an off-duty soldier from Moshav Beit Zayit and Samir Mugrabi, 35, from Kafr Akab, in north Jerusalem, were killed in a terrorist attack in the Nahalat Shiva section of downtown Jerusalem. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 14 94 Cpl. Nahshon Wachsman, 20, who had been abducted by HAMAS, was murdered by his captors. Capt. Nir Poraz, 23, was killed in the course of the unsuccessful IDF rescue operation to obtain his release.

Oct 19 94 In a suicide bombing attack on the No. 5 bus on Dizengoff Street in Tel-Aviv, 21 Israelis and one Dutch national were killed: Haviv Tishbi, 54, of Tel Aviv; Moshe Gardinger, 83, of Tel Aviv; Pnina Rapaport, 74, of Tel Aviv; Galit Rosen, 23, of Holon; Zippora Ariel, 64, of Tel Aviv; David Lida, 74, of Tel Aviv; Puah Yedgar, 56, of Givatayim; Dalia Ashkenazi, 62, of Tel; Aviv Esther Sharon, 21, of Lod; Ofra Ben-Naim, 33, of Lod; Tamar Karlibach-Sapir, 24, of Moshav Zafaria; Shira Meroz-Kot, 20, of Kibbutz Beit Hashita; Miriam Adaf, 54, of Sderot; Anat Rosen, 21, of Ra'anana; Salah Ovadia, 52, of Holon; Eliahu Wasserman, 66, of Bat Yam; Alexandra Sapirstein, 55, of Holon; Dr. Pierre Atlas, 56, of Kiryat Ono; Ella Volkov, 21, of Safed; Ayelet Langer-Alkobi, 26, of Kibbutz Yiron; Kochava Biton, 59, of Tel Aviv; Reinier Verbiest, 25, of the Netherlands.

Nov 11 94 Capt. Yehazkel Sapir, 36, of Kfar Sava; Lt. Yotam Rahat, 31, of Tel-Aviv; and Capt. Elad Dror, 24, of Kibbutz Nachson were killed at the Netzarim junction in the Gaza Strip when a Palestinian riding a bicycle detonated explosives strapped to his body. Islamic Jihad said it carried out the attack to avenge the car bomb killing of Islamic Jihad leader Hani Abed on Nov 2.

Nov 19 94 Sgt.-Maj. Gil Dadon, 26, of Bat Yam, was killed at the army post at Netzarim junction by shots fired from a passing car. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Nov 27 94 Rabbi Amiran Olami, 34, of Otniel was killed near Beit Hagai 10 kms south of Hebron by shots fired from a passing car.

Nov 30 94 Sgt. Liat Gabai, 19, of Afula, was axed to death in the center of Afula.

Jan 6 95 Ofra Felix, 20, of Beit El, a university student, was killed when terrorists opened fire on her car north of Beit El.

Jan 22 95 Two consecutive bombs exploded at the Beit Lid junction near Netanya, killing 18 soldiers and one civilian. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack. The soldiers killed were: Lt. David Ben-Zino, 20, of Ashdod; Lt. Adi Rosen, 20, of Moshav Bitzaron; Lt. Yuval Tuvya, 22, of Jerusalem; Sgt.-Maj. Anan Kadur, 24, of Daliat al-Carmel; Staff-Sgt. Damian Rosovski, 20, of Kadima; Staff-Sgt. Yehiel Sharvit, 21, of Haifa; Staff-Sgt. Yaron Blum, 20, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Maya Kopstein, 19, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Daniel Tzikuashvili, 19, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Avi Salto, 19, of Rishon Lezion; Sgt. Rafael Mizrahi, 19, of Ramat Gan; Sgt. Eran Gueta, 20, of Ashkelon; Cpl. Soli Mizrahi, 18, of Ramat Ramat Gan; Cpl. David Hasson, 18, of Ashkelon; Cpl. Amir Hirschenson, 18, of Jerusalem; Cpl. Gilad Gaon, 18, of Herzliya; Cpl. Ilie Dagan, 18, of Kochav Yair; Cpl. Eitan Peretz, 18, of Nahariya; and Shabtai Mahpud, 34, of Moshav Tnuvot.
Lt. Eyal Levy, 20, of Ashdod, and Cpl. Yaniv Weiser, 18, of Givatayim, who were seriously wounded in the attacks, later died of their wounds.

Feb 6 95 Yevgeny Gromov, 32, of Ashkelon, a security guard, was killed when terrorists opened fire from a passing car on the Gaza bypass road between Jabalya and Gaza City, as he was escorting a gasoline truck to a Gaza Strip filling station.

Feb 13 95 Rafael Cohen, 35, of Jerusalem, a taxi driver, was fatally stabbed on the Jerusalem-Ma'aleh Adumim road.

Mar 19 95 Nahum Hoss, 32, of Hebron and Yehuda Fartush, 41, of Kiryat Arba, were killed when terrorists fired on an Egged bus near the entrance to Hebron.

Mar 29 95 Police Insp. Nitzan Cohen, 22, of Jerusalem and Sgt.-Maj. Jamal Suwitat from Makr village in Western Galilee were killed when a Palestinian driver rammed his truck into their jeep in a convoy east of the Netzarim junction in Gaza.

Apr 9 95 Staff-Sgt. Yuval Regev, 20, of Holon; Staff-Sgt. Meir Scheinwald, 20, of Safed; Sgt. Itai Diener, 19, of Rishon Lezion; Sgt. Zvi Narbat, 19, of Rishon Lezion; Sgt. Netta Sufrin, 20, of Rishon Lezion; Cpl. Tal Nir, 19, of Kibbutz Miflasim; Sgt. Avraham Arditi, 19, of Jerusalem; and Alisa Flatow, 20, of the United States were killed when a bus was hit by an explosives-laden van near Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Jul 18 95 Ohad Bachrach, 18, of Beit El, and Ori Shahor, 20, of Ra'anana, were killed while hiking in Wadi Kelt.

Jul 24 95 Moshe Shkedi, 75, of Ramat Gan; Rahel Tamari, 65, of Tel Aviv; Zviya Cohen, 62, of Tel Aviv; Zahava Oren, 60, of Tel Aviv; Nehama Lubowitz, 61, of Tel Aviv; and Mordechai Tovia, 37, of Tel Aviv were killed in a suicide bomb attack on a bus in Ramat Gan.

Aug 21 95 Rivka Cohen, 26, of Jerusalem; Hannah Naeh, 56, of Jerusalem; Joan Davenney, 46, of Connecticut; and Police Chief Superintendent Noam Eisenman, 35, of Jerusalem were killed in a suicide bombing of a Jerusalem bus.

Sep 5 95 Daniel Frei, 28, of Ma'aleh Michmash, was stabbed to death when a terrorist broke into his home at night.

Jan 16 96 Sgt. Yaniv Shimel and Major Oz Tibon, both of Jerusalem, were killed when terrorists fired on their car on the Hebron-Jerusalem road.

Jan 30 96 Staff Sgt. Ehud Tal, 21, of Kibbutz Maoz Haim, was stabbed to death at the liaison office in an army camp south of Jenin.

Feb 25 96 In a suicide bombing of bus No. 18 near the Central Bus Station in Jerusalem, 26 were killed (17 civilians and 9 soldiers).
The civilians:
Daniel Biton, 42; Yitzhak Elbaz, 57, Boris Sharpolinsky, 64; Semion Trakashvili, 60; Yitzhak Yakhnis, 54; Peretz Gantz, 61; Anatoly and Jana Kushnirov, 36 and 37; Masuda Amar, 59; Swietlana Gelezniak, 32; Celine Zaguri, 19 - all of Jerusalem; Navon Shabo, 22, of Bnei Brak; Michael Yerigin, 16, of Kibbutz Maabarot; Matthew Eisenfeld, 25 and Sara Duker, 23, of the United States.
Wael Kawasmeh, 23, of East Jerusalem, and Ira Yitzhak Weinstein, 53, of Maaleh Adumim, later died of their wounds.
The soldiers:
Sgt. Yonatan Barnea, 20; St-Sgt. Gavriel Krauss, 24; St.-Sgt. Gadi Shiloni, 22; Cpl. Moshe Reuven, 19; St.-Sgt. Maj. (res.) Arye Barashi, 39; Cpl. Iliya Nimotin, 19; Cpl. Merav Nahum, 19; Sgt. Sharon Hanuka, 19; Arik Gaby, 16 (student in pre-army boarding school) - all of Jerusalem.
HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 25 96 Sgt. Hofit Ayyash, 20, of Ashdod was killed in an explosion set off by a suicide bomber at a hitchhiking post oustide Ashkelon. HAMAS claimed responsibility for the attack.

Feb 26 96 Flora Yehiel, 28, of Kiryat Ata, was killed when a car was driven into a bus stop at the French Hill junction in Jerusalem.

Mar 3 96 In a suicide bombing of bus No. 18 on Jaffa Road in Jerusalem, 19 were killed (16 civilians and 3 soldiers).
The civilians:
Maya Birkan, 59; Naima Zargary, 66; Gavriel Shamashvili, 43; Shemtov Sheikh, 63; Anna Shingeloff, 36; Raya Daushvili, 55; George Yonan, 38 - all of Jerusalem; Sarina Angel, 45, of Beit Jalla; Gidi Taspanish, 23, a tourist from Ethiopia; Valerian Krasyon, 44, a tourist from Romania; Dominic Lunca, 29; Daniel Patenka, 33; Marian Grefan, 40; Mirze Gifa, 39; Dimitru Kokarascu, 43 - all Romanian workers.
Imar Ambrose, 51, of Romania, died on March 9.
The soldiers:
Sgt. Yoni Levy, 21, of Jerusalem; Sgt. Haim Amedi, 19, of Jerusalem; Senior NCO Uzi Cohen, 54, border policeman of Jerusalem.

Mar 4 96 Outside Dizengoff Center in Tel-Aviv, a suicide bomber detonated a 20-kilogram nail bomb, killing 13 (12 civilians and 1 soldier):
Bat-Hen Shahak, 15, of Tel Mond; Hadas Dror, 15, of Tel Mond; Kobi Zaharon, 13, of Tel Aviv; Inbar Atiya, 21, of Ramat-Efal; Dan Tversky, 58, of Tel Aviv; Dana Gutman, 14, of Moshav Mishmeret; Yovav Levy, 13, of Tel Aviv; Leah Mizrahi, 60, of Tel Aviv; Tali Gordon, 24, of Givatayim; Rahel Sela, 82, of Tel Aviv; Sylvia Bernstein, 73, of Hod Hasharon; Gail Belkin, 48, of Herzliya; St.-Sgt. Assaf Wachs, 21, of Holon.

May 14 96 David Baum, 17, a yeshiva high school student in Beit El, was killed when terrorists fired at students at a hitchhiking post at Beil El, near Ramallah.

Jun 9 96 Yaron (26) and Efrat (25) Unger, of Kiryat Arba, were killed when terrorists fired on their car near Beit Shemesh.

Jun 16 96 First-Sgt. Meir Alush, 40, an off-duty policeman, was shot and killed in a toy store in the village of Bidiya.

Jun 26 96 Staff Sgt. (Res.) Asher Berdugo, 22, of Kiryat Bialik; Sgt. Ashraf Shibli, 20, of Shibli; and Cpl. (Res.) Ya'acov Turgeman of Rishon Lezion were killed in an ambush along the Jordan River north of Jericho by terrorists who infiltrated from Jordan.

Jul 26 96 Uri Munk, 53, and his daughter-in-law, Rachel Munk, 24, of Moshav Mevo Betar, were killed in a drive-by shooting attack near Beit Shemesh. 30-year-old Ze'ev Munk, Rachel's husband, was critically wounded and died in the hospital the following week.

Dec 11 96 Etta Tzur, 48, and her son Ephraim, 12, were killed when their car was shot at by terrorists near Surda, west of Beit El.

Mar 21 97 Michal Avrahami, 32, Yael Gilad, 32, and Anat Winter-Rosen, 32, were killed when a suicide bomber detonated a bomb on the terrace of a Tel Aviv cafe. 48 people were wounded.

Apr 10 97 The body of IDF Staff-Sgt. Sharon Edri, missing for seven months, was found buried near the West Bank village of Kfar Tzurif. Edri had been kidnapped and murdered by a Hamas terrorist cell in September 1996 while hitchiking to his home in Moshav Zanoah.

Apr 25 97 Hagit Zavitzky, 23, of Kfar Adumim and Liat Kastiel, 23, of Holon were found stabbed to death in Wadi Kelt.

Jul 30 97 16 people were killed and 178 wounded in two consecutive suicide bombings in the Mahane Yehuda market in Jerusalem:
Lev Desyatnik, 60, of Jerusalem; Regina Giber, 76, of Jerusalem; Valentina Kovalenko, 67, of Jerusalem; Shmuel Malka, 44, of Mevaseret Zion; David Nasco, 44, of Mevaseret Zion; Muhi A-din Othman, 33, of Abu Ghosh; Simha Fremd, 92, of Jerusalem; Grisha Paskhovitz, 15, of Jerusalem; Leah Stern, 50, of Jerusalem; Rachel Tejgatrio, 80, of Jerusalem; Liliya Zelezniak, 47, of Jerusalem; Shalom (Golan) Zevulun, 52, of Jerusalem; Mark Rabinowitz, 80, of Jerusalem.
Eli Adourian, 49, of Kfar Adumim, died of his wounds on August 11. Ilia Gazrach, 73, of Pisgat Ze'ev, died on August 29. Baruch Ostrovsky, 84, of Jerusalem died on October 3.

Sep 4 97 Five people were killed and 181 wounded in three suicide bombings on the Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall in Jerusalem.
The victims: Yael Botwin, 14; Sivan Zarka, 14; Smadar Elhanan, 14; Rami Kozashvili, 20; and Eliahu Markowitz, 40 - all of Jerusalem.

Nov 19 97 Gabriel Hirschberg, 26, was killed by automatic gunfire in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Jan 6 98 Yael Meivar, 25, died of gunshot wounds sustained in a terrorist attack on Dec 31, 1997 near the settlement of Alei Zahav in Samaria.

Feb 11 98 David Ktorza, 40, of Jerusalem, was stabbed to death near his home.

May 6 98 Haim Kerman, 28, was stabbed to death in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Aug 5 98 Harel Bin-Nun, 18, and Shlomo Liebman, 24, were shot and killed in an ambush by terrorists while on patrol at the Yizhar settlement in Samaria.

Aug 20 98 Rabbi Shlomo Ra'anan, 63, was stabbed to death in the bedroom of his caravan in Hebron.

Oct 9 98 IDF soldier Michal Adato, 19, was stabbed to death at Moshav Tomer in the Jordan Valley.

Oct 14 98 Itamar Doron, 24, was shot to death near Moshav Ora, outside Jerusalem.

Oct 26 98 Danny Vargas, 29, of Kiryat Arba was shot to death in Hebron.

Oct 29 98 Sergeant Alexey Neykov, 19, was killed when a terrorist drove an explosives-laden car into an Israeli army jeep escorting a bus with 40 elementary school students from the settlement of Kfar Darom in the Gaza Strip.

Jan 13 99 Sergeant Yehoshua Gavriel, 25, of Ashdod, was killed when terrorists opened fire at the Othniel junction near Hebron.

Aug 7 99 The body of an Israeli, shot in the head, was found in a burned vehicle.

Aug 30 99 Yehiel Finfeter, 25, of Kiryat Motzkin, and Sharon Steinmetz, 21, of Haifa, were murdered whlie hiking in the Megiddo region.


If Israel doesn't have the power to stop 'this thing' then do you think that the palestinian people can stop it?


How would you suggest that the Israeli's get the Palestinians to stop murdering people?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 10:18 am
You are full of crap Moshie.

It's like you believe that the thousands of dead Palestinians are all wrong, and Israel is all right. Take some goddamn responsibility for Israel's part in this mess.

As I said before. Both parties need to forget the past and work towards a future together.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 10:29 am
Cycloptichorn

I am afraid you live in a dream world or won't face reality. IMO The leadership of the PA does not want a peaceful settlement that does not include the destruction of the Jewish State.

As for forgetting the past. Those are pretty empty words.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 10:30 am
Okay, let's assume that they don't.

Does that remove Israel's responsibility for the atrocities that have been committed in any way?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 10:35 am
Cyclo
What atrosities?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 10:39 am
Don't be disingenuous, Au. Seriously.

My job is not to sit here and list off all the ways that the Israelis have been f*cking over the Palestinian people for years.

Whether it has been in retaliation or not, it isn't right. Do some research.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Rick d Israeli
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 11:31 am
au1929 wrote:
Rick

Comment--
Racist, the most overused word in the english language.

How would you place the words of swolf au1929?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 11:42 am
Au,

Do you honestly believe that racism is not at the very core of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict?

And I mean racism on both sides. If you get rid of racism, the problem is solved.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 11:48 am
It's a religious thing, not a race thing.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 11:58 am
McG is right. Abraham and Hagar.
0 Replies
 
swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:16 pm
cavfancier wrote:
McG is right. Abraham and Hagar.


More like lions and hyenas. In the real world, you don't simply put lions and hyenas into a room together and tell them to work out their differences amicably, that's idiotic.
0 Replies
 
 

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