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Israeli firm bids on European wall to keep immigrants out...

 
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:23 pm
swolf, I don't know where your rhetoric comes from, I was just referring to Old Testament and Koranic history, plain and simple. It's not that I disagree by the way, it is an impossible situation right now. However, I certainly do not support bombing anyone into submission as a solution either. Rolling Eyes
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:29 pm
I want to ask all of those in this thread that have thrown up their hands and declared that the palestinians are beasts who want only dead Jews and the destruction of Israel, what's the point? Does that mean that the problem can't be solved and we should let these two groups of people kill each other indefinitely? Is it a justification for genocide or the forced mass migration of an entire population? What, exactly, is your solution?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:31 pm
None of them want to SAY genocide out loud FreeDuck, but they are all thinking it.

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:35 pm
I'll say it Cycloptichorn. The leaders of Palestine as well as many of the surrounding arab nations want nothing less than total genocide of every jew in the Middle East. Especially Israel.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:37 pm
<claps hands>

Excellent McG. Excellent. Now, what do the Israelis want?

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:44 pm
the Israelis want to be left alone to have a country that isn't terrorized everyday by people wanting to exterminate them.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:49 pm
Haven't read all posts, but isn't anyone surprised the fence isn't being built by former East Germans? They were good at it.

Well, theirs were to keep people in, but same difference, more or less.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:55 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
I want to ask all of those in this thread that have thrown up their hands and declared that the palestinians are beasts who want only dead Jews and the destruction of Israel, what's the point? Does that mean that the problem can't be solved and we should let these two groups of people kill each other indefinitely? Is it a justification for genocide or the forced mass migration of an entire population? What, exactly, is your solution?


Migrations are nothing new. Tens of millions of Pakistanis and Indians traded countries getting that one settled, more or less; we're not talking about anything like that here, just a couple of million or so. I say again, the map tells the whole story in a glance. You have this gigantic swath of territory stretching from China to the West coast of Africa and tens of degrees of lattitude up and down, and then this tiny sliver of land called Israel. The solution is to force the slammite world to find a place for the palis in the gigantic swath, just like they found room for the Pakistanis. It ain't that complicated.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 12:56 pm
Quote:
the Israelis want to be left alone to have a country that isn't terrorized everyday by people wanting to exterminate them.


Yeah, well, there are two little problems with this.

First, the fact that Israel is located upon the holy grounds of not just Judaism but Christianity and to a certain extent the Muslims as well.

Now, when you set up camp on other people's holy ground, and then tell them they aren't going to be able to visit them unrestricted, it makes people rather angry. Israel has to realize and deal with this.

Secondly, when Israel 'was made,' a lot of people were displaced. They weren't too happy about this fact. They want their land back, and they really have every right to feel that way - after all, the process in which it was stripped from them was hardly legal.

Israel won't give the land back. They won't give them equal rights, because then Israel wouldn't be a Jewish state - they would be a minority, again. But do you know what? I don't give a damn if a Jewish state exists or not. Israel really has no right to be where it is today.

The reason this whole thing is such a mess can be directly traced back to the major countries after WWII refusing to deal with the problem with displaced Jews following the Holocaust. They tried a cute solution and look how much hate and trouble it has brought today.

I feel as if there are a ton of Israelis and supporters of Israel that would like to see every man, woman and child of Palestine dead rather than deal with them as equals.

Cycloptichorn
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 01:08 pm
McGentrix wrote:
the Israelis want to be left alone to have a country that isn't terrorized everyday by people wanting to exterminate them.


I think they want more than that, as they are heavily recruiting immigrants to move into newly built settlements in occupied, disputed territory.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 01:11 pm
I just wanted to pop in and ask if anyone else thinks that the Pakistanis are doing a much better job of capturing terrorists than the US?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 01:15 pm
swolf wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
I want to ask all of those in this thread that have thrown up their hands and declared that the palestinians are beasts who want only dead Jews and the destruction of Israel, what's the point? Does that mean that the problem can't be solved and we should let these two groups of people kill each other indefinitely? Is it a justification for genocide or the forced mass migration of an entire population? What, exactly, is your solution?


Migrations are nothing new. Tens of millions of Pakistanis and Indians traded countries getting that one settled, more or less; we're not talking about anything like that here, just a couple of million or so. I say again, the map tells the whole story in a glance. You have this gigantic swath of territory stretching from China to the West coast of Africa and tens of degrees of lattitude up and down, and then this tiny sliver of land called Israel. The solution is to force the slammite world to find a place for the palis in the gigantic swath, just like they found room for the Pakistanis. It ain't that complicated.


It's about 3.5 million, more than half of the population of Israel and way, way more than the population of the settlements in the currently occupied territory. You think we should move 3.5 million people in order to make way for about 500,000 -- many of them immigrants from other countries who are taking Israel up on their sweet offer of subsidized housing?
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 01:16 pm
cavfancier wrote:
I just wanted to pop in and ask if anyone else thinks that the Pakistanis are doing a much better job of capturing terrorists than the US?


I do, I do. But I think that is to be expected -- it's their territory after all.
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 02:31 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
the Israelis want to be left alone to have a country that isn't terrorized everyday by people wanting to exterminate them.


Yeah, well, there are two little problems with this.

First, the fact that Israel is located upon the holy grounds of not just Judaism but Christianity and to a certain extent the Muslims as well.



Christianity yes, Islam no. There is no legitimate muslim holy site within several hundred miles of Jerusalem. The Al Aqsa mosque is nothing more than the normal slammite penchant for building mosques over top of everybody elses churches and synagogues. At some point that has to be stopped, and I'd just as soon see it stopped in Jerusalem than worry about stopping them from building a mosque over top of the National Cathedral in Washington D.C.

The sooner the Israelis can dismantle AlAqsa and dump the rubble over the border into Saudi Arabia and get it over with, far as I'm concerned, the better.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 02:44 pm
swolf wrote:

Christianity yes, Islam no. There is no legitimate muslim holy site within several hundred miles of Jerusalem. The Al Aqsa mosque is nothing more than the normal slammite penchant for building mosques over top of everybody elses churches and synagogues. At some point that has to be stopped, and I'd just as soon see it stopped in Jerusalem than worry about stopping them from building a mosque over top of the National Cathedral in Washington D.C.


Crikey, you are paranoid and delusional.

Quote:

The sooner the Israelis can dismantle AlAqsa and dump the rubble over the border into Saudi Arabia and get it over with, far as I'm concerned, the better.


Just curious, since you are the one with the map, does Israel share a border with Saudi Arabia?
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swolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 02:52 pm
FreeDuck wrote:


Just curious, since you are the one with the map, does Israel share a border with Saudi Arabia?


They might have to get permission from Jordan to drive two or three miles through Jordanian territory.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 03:50 pm
ebrown
Not racism but the poison that religion exudes.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 04:46 pm
Brown said

Quote:
Wow. Well do you know how many Palestinian civilians, including children have died over the last 4 years at the hands of the IDF? It's more than 3000, 12% of those are under the age of 15. What do you tell their relatives -- sorry but your children are dogs who deserved to die for the security of Israel? Is killing palestinians more acceptable than killing Israeli's because palestinians expect to be killed and Israeli's don't?


The people on both sides have been killed because of the Intafada. Now ask yourself whose intafada is it. In addition the Israeli's action has been and is in response to terror visited upon them by the Palestinians. As to what I would tell the Palestinian parents. Keep their children at home rather than allowing them to strap bombs to their bodies and carrying out suicide missions. I can't imagine any civilized person doing less.
brown said
Quote:
Couldn't this be the same argument, but in reverse, that those who want to 'push Israel into the sea' would use? A peaceful Israeli is one that is kept out of Palestine?


That no doubt is exactly how they feel and remember however they include the state of Israel as being part of Palestine
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 04:59 pm
free duck wrote
Quote:
I want to ask all of those in this thread that have thrown up their hands and declared that the Palestinians are beasts who want only dead Jews and the destruction of Israel, what's the point? Does that mean that the problem can't be solved and we should let these two groups of people kill each other indefinitely? Is it a justification for genocide or the forced mass migration of an entire population? What, exactly, is your solution?


The solution will come only when the adversaries decide they have had enough killing if ever and not until than. Yes, the aim of the Arabs is the destruction of the Jewish State of that there is no doubt. The aim of course of Israel is to thwart that desire and to protect it's citizens by whatever means necessary. As for throwing up our hands I should remind all that what we discuss and say here does not in reality mean a hill of beans.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Aug, 2004 05:04 pm
Roger
Quote:
Haven't read all posts, but isn't anyone surprised the fence isn't being built by former East Germans? They were good at it.


Not really, if you remember it came tumbling down. Laughing
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