I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

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Set aside for the moment Hillary Clinton's questionable ethics, her weather-vane shifts in position, her eagerness to use force in foreign affairs, the taint that still clings to her from her husband's presidency and its regressive policies -- all that could be forgiven. But I cannot forgive Clinton for her vote in favor of the Iraq War.

To be sure, Clinton has belatedly and half-heartedly apologized for that vote, calling it a "mistake." And a mistake it certainly was -- one that cost her the White House in 2008. No doubt there are some mistakes that can be forgiven. But giving George W. Bush and his fellow brigands the authority to invade a country that posed no threat, in full violation of international law, was the sort of enormous, mind-boggling mistake that automatically disqualified her (and every on of her colleagues who voted along with her) from ever holding higher office.

Of course, I won't be voting for any of the pack of nincompoops and scoundrels from the GOP. It would be a calamity if any of them won the presidency. But I cannot, in good conscience, support someone who was an accomplice to a war crime in the past and who could very well be the perpetrator of one in the future.

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I'll sign up for this, but different reasons.

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@joefromchicago,

I would add her opposition to single payer health care to the list of reasons not to vote for Hillary, and her past opposition to same sex marriage.

I live in Massachusetts, so saying I won't vote for Hillary in the general election doesn't mean very much (since the Democratic candidate automatically gets our delegates).

I have already sent Bernie Sanders more money than I can afford.

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I have a whole laundry list, but suffice to say, she is not deserving of the presidency.

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@edgarblythe,

Have any of you people checked Bernie's record on military spending and which wars and which warmongers he does support? He voted against the Iraq war because he knew it was going to pass without him. A grandstand position. But this was one of the few wars he voted against. Check the record. The conservative brain washing machine is doing a wondrous job of getting the candidate they have the best chance of beating.

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@RABEL222,

Bernie Sander's did support the Clinton administration's bombing in Yugoslavia (which some have criticized). Is there anything else you are talking about? I don't see "conservative brainwashing", I see a frantic propaganda effort by Clinton supporters who believe that Hillary is entitled to the White House at any cost and is upset that anyone dares to challenge her ascendancy.

Which wars did you support Rabel?

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I never said Bernie was the perfect human. But, he is the only candidate with good poll numbers even in the ballpark for my vote.

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@maxdancona,

Well said.

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@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

the taint that still clings to her from her husband's presidency and its regressive policies -- all that could be forgiven.

Interesting objection, but I notice others citing the same connection as an asset.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I would add her opposition to single payer health care

She was for it before she was against it.

maxdancona wrote:

her past opposition to same sex marriage

She was against it before she was for it.

I don't mind politicians changing their positions in step with changing circumstances, as long as those changes are genuine. On the other hand, I have no confidence that Clinton's frequent flip-flops have been driven by anything but expedience.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

joefromchicago wrote:

the taint that still clings to her from her husband's presidency and its regressive policies -- all that could be forgiven.

Interesting objection, but I notice others citing the same connection as an asset.

No doubt people who actually liked Bill Clinton's policies.

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@joefromchicago,

I agree with at least a good portion of complaints re Hillary Clinton (having my own old thread essentially about "is there anyone else"), but I much care about the supreme court as part of the package, whatever the obstacles to getting anyone palatable to dems in there.

I gather that doesn't worry you, or, am I understanding you incorrectly? If not or if so, I'd like to hear what you have to say on the effect on the supremes with a dem not prevailing.

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@RABEL222,

RABEL222 wrote:

Have any of you people checked Bernie's record on military spending and which wars and which warmongers he does support?

Have you?

RABEL222 wrote:

He voted against the Iraq war because he knew it was going to pass without him. A grandstand position.

To whom was he grandstanding? If you'll recall, opposition to the war was widely regarded as a politically unpopular move. If you're saying that Sanders rejected a popular position that he secretly supported in order to gain attention by advocating an unpopular position that he secretly opposed, you'll have to make a better argument than this implausible insinuation.

RABEL222 wrote:

But this was one of the few wars he voted against.

As Obama famously said, he's not against all wars, just dumb ones. Nobody accused Sanders of being a doctrinaire pacifist. If he voted in favor of war at some other time, that vote should be viewed on its merits. The fact that he may have supported some wars while opposing a gigantically stupid war is a mark in his favor, I should think.

RABEL222 wrote:

Check the record.

You made the argument, you do the research.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

I much care about the supreme court as part of the package, whatever the obstacles to getting anyone palatable to dems in there.

Didn't I hear this as the reason I had to vote for Hillary in 2008? I didn't vote for Hillary in 2008... and somehow things turned out alright anyway.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I gather that doesn't worry you, or, am I understanding you incorrectly? If not or if so, I'd like to hear what you have to say on the effect on the supremes with a dem not prevailing.

A Republican president will certainly pick supreme court nominees who are as retrograde as the current bunch of Jurassic justices. But that's the Republicans -- Clinton can't do anything about them except defeat them at the polls. If she is the Democratic nominee and loses the general election, it'll be her own damn fault.

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Just vote, pick a candidate and vote. Too many people are lazy and won't make the trip. Just vote.

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@maxdancona,

I don't know.
I still have my Obama tee shirt.

I was speaking about the now apparently growing group of dems (or others) who adamantly will not vote for Hillary.

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Too many people on a2k think a Bernie campaign cannot win. I disagree.

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@joefromchicago,

I get that.

Also, this is a test day for me. I'm trying as a test to not "fix" thumbs down made by others. My fixing for years may have made stuff mildly more pleasant on the boards. Today's (and maybe more) test is killing me - so many posts I want to pump back up because people slam for distaste for the person or large disagreement. I only want that to be about worse stuff, a technicality all my own.
Which is not part of the rules here, and I also get that.

dammit, I also by mistake (re the test) voted Joe up, and I can't undo it, mostly since I don't want to. It is hard to keep my thumbs quiet, test invalidated.. but I'll keep not-fixing for a while more.

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@edgarblythe,

I think Bernie may be able to win and he is my candidate, of course, if you have read my posts.
I think it would be a kind of self demolition for libs to not vote for Hillary if she is the candidate.* Also more wide consequences would evolve from those non votes.

*I stopped insisting on how much Lash moved in views, some of that was my wishing though she did move some, but still defend her as exploring and not some kind of tool or whatever else the knocks. I have watched several people on a2k change, marginal steps, including myself.

I am also tired of the Hillary barrage. I didn't like her already, will vote as I choose re tactics.

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I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

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