I'll Never Vote for Hillary Clinton

I thought that was called "Kansas."

The amount that is paid in taxes by the poor is really astronomical. I computed this once four years ago when Romney released his tax returns. Romney paid zero social security taxes, on a percentage basis less than one percent for property taxes, gas taxes, sales and utility taxes. Because just about all of his income is in capital gains, he pays 15-20% on it and most of the growth in his wealth is untaxed because he hasn't taken the gain on it. (Not to pick on Romney, but he did the whole 47% takers thing.) The working poor in this country pay 15% social security taxes (7.65% themselves plus the same from their employer), 6-11% sales tax (since they have to spend just about every dollar they get), typically 2-3% property tax (if they rent, it is folded into the rent) plus they get nickled and dimed on gas taxes, utility taxes, etc. Amounts that are insignificant to the rich add up to real money on the poor. When Warren Buffet said he pays a significantly lower tax rate than his secretary, he wasn't kidding.

I don't know any Sanders supporter who thinks he'll be able to deliver on all of his proposals. How many did Obama deliver? How many has anyone delivered?

If he can re-institute Glass Steagall - only that - it will turn us around toward democracy and away from the crash and burn we are facing.

It's either follow him in the right direction or go straight to hell with Clinton.

How are you defining the "poor?"

You argued with me that there was no way Obama would be at the top of the ticket in Soz' Obama thread - before he announced. Who wouldn't say it was plausible after Iowa?

When it takes heart, you come up short.

Cue Eddie Murphy laugh

Well as long as you don't consider him a Savior.

The crazy savior-like thing about him is that I believe he is a basically honest man in politics - and that is like spotting a ******* albino unicorn.

I think he's more honest than most politicians but I don't think he's immune to the siren call of power. As much as I disagree with the majority of his positions, I have felt a nostalgic pull towards a more idealistic time in my life as respects his supporters.

I'm afraid the young ones are getting a harsh lesson about the way politics works in this world, but maybe that's better than the lesson that you shouldn't put all your hope in one politician. He was never going to deliver what they wanted.

Call me a cynic, but I think I'm a realist.

He also has the balls to speak truth to power.

No wonder they're undermining him any way they can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM-tlpMHpdo

Hey, I'm not trying to bash the man, but it only takes balls to speak truth to power when doing so might lead to power removing your balls. Bernie was never in such jeopardy.

Okay, so you're saying you're a liar, and I didn't call you deluded on Soz' thread?

He's been marginalized as crazy for most of his career for speaking truth to power. That's the primary reason Hillary allowed him to run on the D ticket. She thought he'd be a cute sideshow on the procession to her coronation....

Exactly right; he had a cushy job in a small very liberal state where he's never had a serious challenger for election (in part because Democrats haven't ran anyone against him in a primary).

It doesn't take much courage to be against something when there's literally no consequence to doing so.

It pains me deeply to acknowledge that i mostly agree with Finn about this one.

How much "heart" does it take for your touting of Bernie? It's not like you're going off to war, or something. What have you got to lose; what are you putting at stake? Certainly not your reputation. Get a freaking grip.

dang, me too

You know you said it. Don't be a liar. Revelette is watching and she really needs a good role model!

You'll recover Pooch.

Yeah, given that you consider me a puss-filled boil, as you said in a thread of mine, you can bet i don't really give a rat's ass about you.