49
   

Who do you think will be the next president of the United States?

 
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2016 08:07 am
@snood,
True, somehow the democrat side needs to drum up some up some feeling, I just hope the Sander supporters don't sit this one out or vote for a green party in large numbers or in states that count.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2016 08:29 am
The Republican side is pretty scary to me. Trump would be a disaster for the US, but honestly, Cruz is worse. This was a guy lobbying hard to shut down the government and default on our debt. That would do bad things to the US that would reverberate for decades. So what happens if Cruz wins the nomination? My first thought is that all the Trump supporters feel that Trump was cheated out of the nomination and they rebel, but I doubt they rebel by voting for Clinton. They might not vote or they might vote for Trump via write-in anyway. Then the question becomes what happens to Sanders voters. This is a motivated group right now. I think if Sanders comes out for Clinton, gets on the campaign trail for her and they both promise to work together to get things done, they will come out. If Sanders takes a wave at the convention and heads home, Clinton will have a harder road.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2016 08:36 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

The Republican side is pretty scary to me. Trump would be a disaster for the US, but honestly, Cruz is worse. This was a guy lobbying hard to shut down the government and default on our debt. That would do bad things to the US that would reverberate for decades. So what happens if Cruz wins the nomination? My first thought is that all the Trump supporters feel that Trump was cheated out of the nomination and they rebel, but I doubt they rebel by voting for Clinton. They might not vote or they might vote for Trump via write-in anyway. Then the question becomes what happens to Sanders voters. This is a motivated group right now. I think if Sanders comes out for Clinton, gets on the campaign trail for her and they both promise to work together to get things done, they will come out. If Sanders takes a wave at the convention and heads home, Clinton will have a harder road.

Agree completely. And I'm worried about how hard Bernie would actually campaign for Hillary if he loses the nomination to her. We've already seen that Hillary is capable of getting behind the person who beat her, and no reason to believe she wouldn't do the same for Bernie. If Bernie opts out or is visibly less than enthusiastic in his support, I think his more rabid fans might follow suit.
tsarstepan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2016 08:54 am
@snood,
Bernie is a genuine progressive candidate. We don't hold grudges in that way that will cause our party to trainwreck in that fashion (unless your name is Ralph Nader then ... #grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!).

Clearly, if Hillary wins the nomination, Bernie isn't getting the VP mate nod and the same can be said with vice versa case. But unlike Clinton and Obama, I don't really see Hillary strongly backing a Bernie Sanders presidential run. But I don't see her sabotaging Sanders if he wins the nomination either.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2016 11:31 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Trump would be a disaster for the US,

I disagree. I think he is going to give the nation a much-needed tuneup so that we are better able to face modern enemies.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 06:48 am
@snood,
I don't share that worry about Sanders. He's a good guy and his goals are definitely understandable. And no question he's passionate in his take on things. But he's not insane. And he's not mean.

I think it must be very difficult to invest the time and energy and passion required for a presidential run and then, when one loses, to avoid the temptations to resentment against one's electoral foe. But it's really only the shallow and somewhat disturbed type of individuals who hold onto that grudge and allow it to determine future thinking, actions and statements. Bernie doesn't seem that type at all. Surely, some of his followers (some of any candidate's followers) will be those types but that's just inevitable.

Bernie will do his part assuming Hillary wins. Because he is a good human.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 07:13 am
@oralloy,
We've had this discussion on the Trump thread, but why do you think Trump would be successful as President?
snood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 07:23 am
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

I don't share that worry about Sanders. He's a good guy and his goals are definitely understandable. And no question he's passionate in his take on things. But he's not insane. And he's not mean.

I think it must be very difficult to invest the time and energy and passion required for a presidential run and then, when one loses, to avoid the temptations to resentment against one's electoral foe. But it's really only the shallow and somewhat disturbed type of individuals who hold onto that grudge and allow it to determine future thinking, actions and statements. Bernie doesn't seem that type at all. Surely, some of his followers (some of any candidate's followers) will be those types but that's just inevitable.

Bernie will do his part assuming Hillary wins. Because he is a good human.

If you read what I wrote I didn't say I was worried about Bernie - never have been worried about his scruples or integrity. It's his followers. He has already said he will support the eventual nominee, whoever it is. The only thing that remains to be seen about him is the degree of intensity with which he throws his support behind her (if he loses). It's those fans of Bernie that worry me, if Hillary is the nominee. There are far more Berniebots than Hillaryheads saying they will only support their candidate and no one else.
snood
 
  3  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 07:25 am
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
unlike Clinton and Obama, I don't really see Hillary strongly backing a Bernie Sanders presidential run. But I don't see her sabotaging Sanders if he wins the nomination either.


Just curious - why do you think Clinton would enthusiastically support Obama after a hard fought loss to him, but not similarly support Bernie Sanders?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:28 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
We've had this discussion on the Trump thread, but why do you think Trump would be successful as President?

He is bringing a much-needed shakeup to the system. He'll be bringing the "Reagan Democrats" into the Republican Party permanently, broadening the Republican base and shrinking the Democratic base, leading to an extended period of Republican dominance. Plus most other government positions are already held by Republicans, so he'll find people cooperating with him instead of opposing him.

If he can also manage to win a war against a major rising world power, he'll end up being the next Washington/Lincoln/FDR.
Blickers
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:36 am
@oralloy,
Quote woiyo?
Quote:
If he can also manage to win a war against a major rising world power, he'll end up being the next Washington/Lincoln/FDR.


You're looking forward to a war against a rising world power and want Trump to lead it?
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:42 am
@oralloy,
But why would he be a good President? Here is the link to my post in the other thread and here and here are some clarifications of my thoughts. Given Trump's spotty track record, why do you think he could be the next FDR?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 10:43 am
@revelette2,
revelette2 wrote:

True, somehow the democrat side needs to drum up some up some feeling, I just hope the Sander supporters don't sit this one out or vote for a green party in large numbers or in states that count.


I've been thinking about this a bit lately. If we go by the sample of ''feel the Bern'' super supporters we see here, they seem to be in states where their votes won't count in the general regardless of who the Democrats candidate is. I wonder if that adds to their intensity. It must be frustrating - watching an election from what might as well be a foreign country.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 11:17 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
You're looking forward to a war against a rising world power and want Trump to lead it?

Looking forward to? Not exactly. But what is going to happen is going to happen.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 11:18 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
But why would he be a good President?

I'm not even sure how to define "good president".


engineer wrote:
Given Trump's spotty track record, why do you think he could be the next FDR?

FDR changed what it meant to be a Democrat, and led the Democrats to a period of extended dominance.

Trump is going to change what it means to be a Republican, and will lead the Republicans to a period of extended dominance.

Throw in a war victory against a rising major world power and Trump's historical impact should be quite similar.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 12:20 pm
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 01:19 pm
@snood,
Quote:
"If you read what I wrote I didn't say I was worried about Bernie - never have been worried about his scruples or integrity. It's his followers. He has already said he will support the eventual nominee, whoever it is. The only thing that remains to be seen about him is the degree of intensity with which he throws his support behind her (if he loses). It's those fans of Bernie that worry me, if Hillary is the nominee. There are far more Berniebots than Hillaryheads saying they will only support their candidate and no one else."

Sorry for misunderstanding your argument.

But I'm not terribly concerned about the Sanders' supporters. Much of the commentary I've seen on other boards looks to be conservatives trolling (as happened 7 years ago). Trying to foster division is an old game. And though some actual Dem voters might sit out the election if Hillary gains the nomination, I really doubt many will. And I just don't care what some few really stupid people will do.
woiyo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 01:39 pm
@blatham,
Given the other choices (Clinton or any Republican) I am starting to think Sanders winning the nomination and Presidency would be the best thing for the Nation. That way nothing will happen in Govt!
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 01:50 pm
@woiyo,
Quote:
That way nothing will happen in Govt!

Certainly this was the intent of those who worked out the Constitution and who signed on to the Bill of Rights. The very last thing they wanted was a government of, by and for the people that might ever actually be able to represent their citizens' wishes through the work of governance.

So I deem your wish just jam-packed with brilliance.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2016 02:52 pm
@blatham,
I sure hope you're right about it just being a few stupid people.
0 Replies
 
 

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