1
   

Far-left liars endanger us all

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 03:12 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I'm really calmed down now that I neither live in Chicago nor in any of all of your cities!

You should just be glad you're not McGentrix's next door neighbor.

Indeed, you should be even more glad that you're not McGentrix's next door neighbor's dog.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 03:17 pm
McG has lost all common sense and logic. He assumes that only people on the left are liars. I just wonder when his brain got washed down by the neocons? They did a pretty good job.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2004 03:21 pm
Just typed "lies of GW Bush," and got 100,000 hits. Here's one. http://www.bushlies.com/
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Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 06:36 pm
Gautam wrote:
Oh god !! Not another gay basher who thinks we are out to destroy the society as we know it Shocked


Care to tell me how I'm a gay basher? I haven't said anything about gays being bad, all I have said is that I don't believe gays should marry. I haven't said anything negative or called for the beating and death of gays.

It figures that people can't debate over facts but resort to personal attacks when they can't win or prove their point.


NeoGuin wrote:
Setana:

I think the "Flock" has a new member.

Maybe we can save this one before it's too late.


Who is the flock? Do you mean flock as in religious, as in Christian? If you do then you should know that I'm not Christian and don't even believe in Jesus as the Savior.

Or do you mean flock as in sheep? Is it so that only people from the left are the only people capable of independent thought? People from the right are the only ones who spout the party line. Here I was thinking this was a different debate board where people aren't afraid to debate on issue as opposed to just getting personal.
0 Replies
 
cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 06:52 pm
Well, while you are defending your position Baldino, perhaps you should expand on exactly why you think gays should not marry. That might clarify things a bit. If you have stated this earlier, my apologies, I have no patience to read through 15 pages. Personally, I am curious as to your contention that you are not advocating gay bashing, good for you, but you do not approve of gay marriage, for reasons of your own, that inquiring minds wish to explore.

"It figures that people can't debate over facts but resort to personal attacks when they can't win or prove their point."

Please elaborate on these 'facts', as related to your opposition to gay marriage. I'm certain that this will strengthen your argument.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 07:45 pm
cav, Baiting is not nice. Wink
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2004 09:19 pm
Baldimo wrote:
I happen to agree with McGentrix that the far left are endangering us, but not for the same reasons.

They want the destruction of the American family plain and simple. They are fighting for gay marriage and try to acquaint gay rights to civil rights in the 60's. The two are not the same for one simple reason. You can't choose to be black.

. . . et sequitur . . .


You write "They want the destruction of the American family plain and simple. They are fighting for gay marraige and try to acquaint [sic--the word you wanted, but didn't know you wanted, was "equate"] gay rights to civil rights . . . " and then you wonder why a gay man reading this sees it as gay bashing? When i was child we had an expression for someone that dense, that thick--"He could sit on a newspaper and dangle his legs." There is a very descriptive term for what you've written above--paranoid delusion. Small wonder a gay man considers you to be gay-bashing.
0 Replies
 
NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 10:45 am
NeoGuin wrote:
Setana:

I think the "Flock" has a new member.

Maybe we can save this one before it's too late.


Who is the flock? Do you mean flock as in religious, as in Christian? If you do then you should know that I'm not Christian and don't even believe in Jesus as the Savior.

Or do you mean flock as in sheep? Is it so that only people from the left are the only people capable of independent thought? People from the right are the only ones who spout the party line. Here I was thinking this was a different debate board where people aren't afraid to debate on issue as opposed to just getting personal.[/quote]

I mean as in the flock of "Busheep" who rely on "Sheepdogs" like FOX and AM-Radio.

They seem to have this kind of "Herd" mentality.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 10:50 am
Triumph of the Trivial

July 30, 2004
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Under the headline "Voters Want Specifics From Kerry," The
Washington Post recently quoted a voter demanding that John
Kerry and John Edwards talk about "what they plan on doing
about health care for middle-income or lower-income people.
I have to face the fact that I will never be able to have
health insurance, the way things are now. And these
millionaires don't seem to address that."

Mr. Kerry proposes spending $650 billion extending health
insurance to lower- and middle-income families. Whether you
approve or not, you can't say he hasn't addressed the
issue. Why hasn't this voter heard about it?

Well, I've been reading 60 days' worth of transcripts from
the places four out of five Americans cite as where they
usually get their news: the major cable and broadcast TV
networks. Never mind the details - I couldn't even find a
clear statement that Mr. Kerry wants to roll back recent
high-income tax cuts and use the money to cover most of the
uninsured. When reports mentioned the Kerry plan at all, it
was usually horse race analysis - how it's playing, not
what's in it.

On the other hand, everyone knows that Teresa Heinz Kerry
told someone to "shove it," though even there, the context
was missing. Except for a brief reference on MSNBC, none of
the transcripts I've read mention that the target of her
ire works for Richard Mellon Scaife, a billionaire who
financed smear campaigns against the Clintons - including
accusations of murder. (CNN did mention Mr. Scaife on its
Web site, but described him only as a donor to
"conservative causes.") And viewers learned nothing about
Mr. Scaife's long vendetta against Mrs. Heinz Kerry
herself.

There are two issues here, trivialization and bias, but
they're related.

Somewhere along the line, TV news stopped reporting on
candidates' policies, and turned instead to trivia that
supposedly reveal their personalities. We hear about Mr.
Kerry's haircuts, not his health care proposals. We hear
about George Bush's brush-cutting, not his environmental
policies.

Even on its own terms, such reporting often gets it wrong,
because journalists aren't especially good at judging
character. ("He is, above all, a moralist," wrote George
Will about Jack Ryan, the Illinois Senate candidate who
dropped out after embarrassing sex-club questions.) And the
character issues that dominate today's reporting have
historically had no bearing on leadership qualities. While
planning D-Day, Dwight Eisenhower had a close, though
possibly platonic, relationship with his female driver.
Should that have barred him from the White House?

And since campaign coverage as celebrity profiling has no
rules, it offers ample scope for biased reporting.

Notice the voter's reference to "these millionaires." A
Columbia Journalism Review Web site called
campaigndesk.org, says its analysis "reveals a press prone
to needlessly introduce Senators Kerry and Edwards and
Kerry's wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, as millionaires or
billionaires, without similar labels for President Bush or
Vice President Cheney."

As the site points out, the Bush campaign has been
"hammering away with talking points casting Kerry as out of
the mainstream because of his wealth, hoping to influence
press coverage." The campaign isn't claiming that Mr.
Kerry's policies favor the rich - they manifestly don't,
while Mr. Bush's manifestly do. Instead, we're supposed to
dislike Mr. Kerry simply because he's wealthy (and not
notice that his opponent is, too). Republicans, of all
people, are practicing the politics of envy, and the media
obediently go along.

In short, the triumph of the trivial is not a trivial
matter. The failure of TV news to inform the public about
the policy proposals of this year's presidential candidates
is, in its own way, as serious a journalistic betrayal as
the failure to raise questions about the rush to invade
Iraq.

P.S.: Another story you may not see on TV: Jeb Bush insists
that electronic voting machines are perfectly reliable, but
The St. Petersburg Times says the Republican Party of
Florida has sent out a flier urging supporters to use
absentee ballots because the machines lack a paper trail
and cannot "verify your vote."

P.P.S.: Three weeks ago, The New Republic reported that the
Bush administration was pressuring Pakistan to announce a
major terrorist capture during the Democratic convention.
Hours before Mr. Kerry's acceptance speech, Pakistan
announced, several days after the fact, that it had
apprehended an important Al Qaeda operative.

[Paul Krugman is professor of Economics and International Affairs at Princeton University.]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/30/opinion/30krugman.html?ex=1092187167&ei=1&en=9aadb476130150ac

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 11:11 am
I'm surprised the new self-appointed moderator hasn't posted his distaste for a member doing what is fully within the TOS.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 11:16 am
Aaarrrrggggghhhhh...... The only people able to destroy a family are the family members. Why blame somebody not even connected to your family for the destruction of your family?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 08:48 pm
Setanta wrote:
Baldimo wrote:
I happen to agree with McGentrix that the far left are endangering us, but not for the same reasons.

They want the destruction of the American family plain and simple. They are fighting for gay marriage and try to acquaint gay rights to civil rights in the 60's. The two are not the same for one simple reason. You can't choose to be black.

. . . et sequitur . . .


You write "They want the destruction of the American family plain and simple. They are fighting for gay marraige and try to acquaint [sic--the word you wanted, but didn't know you wanted, was "equate"] gay rights to civil rights . . . " and then you wonder why a gay man reading this sees it as gay bashing? When i was child we had an expression for someone that dense, that thick--"He could sit on a newspaper and dangle his legs." There is a very descriptive term for what you've written above--paranoid delusion. Small wonder a gay man considers you to be gay-bashing.


Pardon me for using the wrong term. The term I used wasn't anti-gay. Rolling Eyes

Marriage is about more then love and rights. It is about the foundation of the family structure within the US. Marriage has always been about family and family has always been about a man a woman and children. How does this rewriting of the American family help gays? Someone earlier posted about the history of marriage and I say they are wrong. The bible says that marriage shall be between a man and a woman and doesn't state anything else. For those of you who don't believe in God I can see why you have an issue with this but it was Judeo-Christian beliefs that this country was founded on. If gays want protection in certain areas then there are legal contracts that can be forged and you don't have to go to a lawyer to do this. There are plenty of legal documents online for free that can offer protection.

I don't think we should rewrite the American family for the political agendas of the few. Remember the gay population is only about 5% of the population.

cicerone imposter wrote:
Aaarrrrggggghhhhh...... The only people able to destroy a family are the family members. Why blame somebody not even connected to your family for the destruction of your family?


I didn't say my family but the family structure itself.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 08:56 pm
You entire thesis is predicated upon the assumption that someone is taking something away from you. Two or three centuries ago, church or no church, you wouldn't be considered a candidate for marriage unless there were property involved. All the records available in England in more than two centuries of conscientious records keeping show the number of marriages to be a small fraction of the number of reproducing couples. This was still common in England in the era of the Great War. The same has been true here, despite all the crap myths about America's "religious character." Marriage is and always has been about property and not sanctity. That you and others wish to sanctify an institution which exists whether sanctified or not is certainly not to be opposed, and i don't think should even be criticized. That you wish to claim the institution in exclusivity and think to dictate terms and conditions for its existence in regard to those who are not your co-religionists is not only worthy of criticism, but condemnation. You and the rest of the psalm-singers don't own marriage. When your power to frighten the elected officials wanes, as inevitably it will, you will be unable to prevent what is the simple justice of extending equity in a republic founded upon the principle of seeking equity for all citizens.

Good luck with your crusade, Bubba.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 08:58 pm
Baldimo wrote:
Marriage has always been about family and family has always been about a man a woman and children.


You need to do some homework about the meaning of marriage, and the meaning of family. The meaning/value of the family, and of partnerships, pre-dates the U.S., and pre-dates the Bible. Basing your position on recently developed Judeo/Christian traditions is going to give you a very soft argument to try to defend.
0 Replies
 
Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:04 pm
marriage was, and legally still is, a contract. In the first several decades of early New England the clergy were not even involved legalizing one, only a judge (JP).

Families will continue to exist despite "gay marriage" because the serve very different purposes from marriage.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:06 pm
It isn't about equal protection. There is nothing in the US which gays cannot due that straight people can do besides marriage. As I said there are other ways of protection.

Should people who chose a gay life style be allowed that same tax benifits that starights are allowed? They can still get child tax credits if they have children. Besides marriage, please tell me what gay people can't do that straight people can? Heck I can't get my own mother on my insurance if I was her care provider but a gay couple can get that same coverage? How is that fair! You can't force equality because because of a choice in life! That is what people are doing.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:20 pm
Keep tellin' yourself that . . . you'll want to cling to your self-righteousness while your world-order falters around you . . .
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:22 pm
Can you answer any questions I have asked? Or do you want to dance around the tree all day?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:33 pm
Although i thoroughly enjoy dancing, i need to point out to you the complete absence of trees at this site. As for your holier-than-thou questions, i'd be delighted.

Baldimo wrote:
Should people who chose a gay life style be allowed that same tax benifits that starights are allowed?


Classic "have you stopped beating your wife" question, that is. As there would be no reliable means to determining in law or in equity whether or not a proposed gay marriage would involve someone who had quixotically "chosen a gay life-style," it is moot. I'm not about to acknowledge your specious contention that people are gay by choice, as opposed to being naturally of such a sexual disposition. Therefore, i gladly state that people who are gay should certainly be entitled to every contractual privilege of every other adult in society, including marriage--a civil institution whether or not the witch doctor mumbles over the couple.

Quote:
They can still get child tax credits if they have children. Besides marriage, please tell me what gay people can't do that straight people can?


It may have slipped your attention here momentarily, but the exception of marriage in the catalogue of contractual rights to which adults who happen to be homosexual are entitled is exactly what the debate is all about.

Quote:
Heck I can't get my own mother on my insurance if I was her care provider but a gay couple can get that same coverage? How is that fair!


You wanted a question mark after that last sentence--it's ok if you use them in concert with exclamation points. It's fair because the homosexual members of such a union have no more right to put their mothers on their insurance than do you.

Quote:
You can't force equality because because of a choice in life!


Were i the actively discriminating kind, i'd have to say this would be a wonderful opportunity to deny all the religious nuts equality because of their choice of what to believe with reference to their personal superstitions. Once again, it is your contention that homosexual people are homosexual by choice as opposed to being so naturally. You want to believe it is unnatural, that's fine. You want to shove that down everyone else's throat--forget it. You have neither the right nor the power.

Quote:
That is what people are doing.


No, people are demanding that everyone have the same rights in society without regard to your personally held prejudices against them.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jul, 2004 09:57 pm
You can't prove that homosexuality is natural and neither can they besides them saying that they didn't choose to be gay. How do we really know that. Could it really be that they say this so that they don't feel guilty about their life style choice. You can't say being gay and being black is the same thing because we know you can't choose to be black.

You still haven't told me what gay people can't do that straight people can besides marry.

If you are going to try and convince me then you will have to try harder then what you have been. My mind could be changed but I have to hear some sort of debate that is going to help me change my mind. Don't think I have some blind faith on something just because I don't agree with you. I have changed my mind in the past because of debating
0 Replies
 
 

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