35
   

The Case For Biden

 
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2019 07:04 pm
@Real Music,
I think we should put George Washington in this poll, too.

Because he’s as much in this race as Joe Biden.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2019 07:31 pm
@Lash,
Kettle calling the pot black.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Apr, 2019 11:09 pm
@Real Music,
That’s not good news for Bernie. For someone with basically 100% name recognition, being at 16% and not in the top 3 of “second choices” can’t be a good spot to be in right now.

I like Mayor Pete being noticed.
Real Music
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 12:00 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Hillary lost to Donald Trump, a reality star who can't keep his mouth shut and remained unpopular in the polls throughout the campaign. I find it a awfully hard to believe that there were many possible Democratic candidates who wouldn't have been able to been Trump rather easily.

The process of nominating Hillary wasn't fair (and I am not talking about Bernie). She was ordained before the primaries started and good candidates were warned off before they got started.

edgarblythe wrote to edgarblythe:
The establishment Dems accept no blame for a debacle of their own making.

Real Music wrote to edgarblythe:
There is plenty of blame to go around to why Trump is in the White House. The establishment dems are part to blame. James Comey is part to blame. Hillary Clinton and how she ran her campaign is part to blame. The Russian meddling is part to blame. The voters who voted for Jill Stein are part to blame. The people who decided to stay home and not vote is part to blame. All of those reasons are part to blame to why our worst president in generations, Donald Trump, is currently in the White House. There is plenty of blame to go around. Now, it's time to look forward and make sure that Trump isn't re-elected to a second term. I will gladly vote for Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, or any other democrat to prevent Trump from serving a second term.

nimh wrote to Real Music:
Amen. With an election whose outcome was as narrow as this one's was, it's a fool's quest to argue about what one single thing was at fault. By definition, there's a whole bunch of things that could have made enough of a difference to put Clinton instead of Trump in the white house. They're all worth pointing out, as you did, and analysing; blaming one while ignoring the others is cherry picking.

https://able2know.org/topic/468987-12
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 12:24 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
That’s not good news for Bernie. For someone with basically 100% name recognition, being at 16% and not in the top 3 of “second choices” can’t be a good spot to be in right now.

I like Mayor Pete being noticed.

It's still early. Polls can change many times between now and the start of the primaries. For the most part, I like the group potential candidates who are running for the democratic nomination. At the present time my personal preference is Joe Biden. Regardless of who wins the democratic primaries, I will definitely be voting democrat in the general election.

1. Voting for a third party is not an option for me.

2. Staying home is not an option for me.

3. Voting republican is not an option for me.

4. For me, voting democrat is the only option.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 01:03 am
@Real Music,
Sure. I've voted for Democrats. Twice, though in both cases it was a matter of voting against someone I thought was truly reprehensible.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 02:12 am
@Real Music,
Republicans prevent leftists from violating our civil liberties. For that alone they deserve our votes.
0 Replies
 
Real Music
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 12:09 pm
@roger,
Quote:
Sure. I've voted for Democrats. Twice, though in both cases it was a matter of voting against someone I thought was truly reprehensible.

I can only speculate how you might vote in this upcoming 2020 election.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 12:14 pm
@Real Music,
Me Too! I'm afraid that once again, it's going to depend on which one stimulates the gag reflex the least.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 12:43 pm
I’m really looking forward to the debates. Can’t wait to get a better idea of who some of these people are juxtaposed with the others.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 12:45 pm
Someone let me know if it turns out that any of the Democratic candidates is not in favor of violating the Second Amendment for fun.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 01:45 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I’m really looking forward to the debates. Can’t wait to get a better idea of who some of these people are juxtaposed with the others.


So far most of the 16 or so declared candidates (and more are still coming) have taken positions at least vaguely supportive of the views of the far left wing agenda of the new crowd of "progressives" in the Congress ( and of some long term Democrat operatives as well, including Al Sharpton).

How this will play out in the forthcoming, and likely abrasive, competitive struggle among them for the nomination, and that of Pelosi, Schumer and the DNC with the advocates of the "Green New Deal" for the party platform, all remains to be seen.

We got a good look at the enthusiasm of Sanders supporters in the last primary - their zeal continued, even though his chances of winning either the nomination or the election remained negligible throughout the process. This is a reminder that enthusiasm is not a useful substitute for analysis of the facts. I suspect the smartest of the Democrat contenders will recognize that obvious truth, but all will be struggling with the sometimes conflicting imperatives of gaining notoriety & support among party voters in the Primary, and of developing a winning program for the subsequent election.

So far the Democrat contenders appear to be the chief consumers of their own left wing propaganda - a dangerous condition for them that may be harmful to the eventual nominee.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 02:11 pm
@georgeob1,
Yeah. I think a few of them have decided to draw sharper contrast from Sanders, while several have jumped on his bandwagon. Looking forward to seeing who can create a coherent sentence (Beto seems to have gone a bit fruit loops recently), who goes on the attack against Sanders (smart to try to gang up on the front runner), who can’t answer to criticism, etc.

—————
Is anyone standing against Trump on your side?
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 02:29 pm
@Lash,
I suspect the attacks on Sanders by other candidates are substantially motivated by a desire to pry away some of his rather committed base of supporters. This runs the risk of a flight by all to more and more far left positions - something that I believe Republicans will welcome.

Again, this illustrates the undeniable (in the current political situation, with the emerging Left Wing movement in the Democrat Party ) contradictions involved in the race for the nomination and the increasingly very different requirements for winning an election.

I observe that many Democrat supporters are claiming that the fact that they regained a majority in the House of Representatives in the last election is proof positive of public support for their somewhat radical new programs. The facts are not with them in this. Setbacks in the Congress in the subsequent election are the rule in our recent political history and most of them were greater than occurred in our last election. Despite this two term Presidents and 2nd term recoveries in the Congress are also the rule in our recent history.

I believe the likelihood of a 2nd Trump (or Republican) Presidential Term is increasing every day. I answer to your question, Republican opposition is possible but not yet evident, I'm sure several potential candidates are watching and evaluating their chances on a regular basis. However, in the current polarized political climate, such nuanced political questions can become lost in the ongoing tempest. One consequence of the persistent anti Trump refusal of Democrats to work with Republicans to find compromise solutions on any issue has been an observably growing unity among Republicans.

Progressives like to be judged based on the virtues of their intentions, and not what actually results from their often foolish programs (Obama care, student loans, etc.) . Something similar appears to be happening in the ongoing political process among Democrats, as they push harder and harder on ever more radical programs that attract their like-minded supporters, but which, as history shows, don't win national elections.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 02:58 pm
@georgeob1,
I would have shared your reasoning maybe seven or eight years ago. It wasn’t terribly long ago that I believed this country could not accept anything with the word ‘socialism’ attached to it. Just like a little before that, I’d’ve said a woman nor a black man could be elected. That has changed.

As you know, I believe tide has turned in America. The time is ripe. The man is the right man. The millennial generation has a bleak future because of the outrageous cost of an education for regular families; industry has failed and the life expectancy in this country has decreased due to suicide and high level drug abuse because the American Dream has been choked off for most of us. People literally die because they can’t afford medication and medical treatment. The situation is unsustainable. It must change.

These things aren’t true because we were attacked by another country. We’ve been attacked by the incessant greed of our own lawmakers and their
paymasters.

Your logic worked not long ago. A left-leaning D party was poison. Dukakis, anyone? In your circles, I’m sure, your friends are sitting in the best bars around the SF bay, chortling at what you firmly believe is the folly of Ds moving left. But, there is a horde of different demographics, all coming from different stories and specific concerns from every part of this country, and they are all headed to the same destination: revolution for the people.

I can imagine how nutty you think I am.

You and I’ll be watching the single most important election of our lifetimes. It’ll be amazing to check in with you as it progresses. I know you’re a formidable connoisseur of politics. I look forward to it.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 03:59 pm
@Lash,
I don't think you are nutty, and I'll agree that the current wave of (rather childish in my view) enthusiasm for some of the equivalently childish new wave of Democrat "legislators", does indeed suggest that something lasting may have changed. Stranger things have happened - the 13th century Children's Crusade comes to mind, as does the enthusiasm among first century BC Romans for the parade of Triumvir dictators who promised to end the sectarian strife that, with systems that ensured compromise, had been the foundation of the Republic for centuries, and who instead delivered civil war, dictators and empire. In more recent events, there was also the exaggerated public enthusiasm Lenin, Mussolini and Hitler. On a smaller and (in historical terms) still incomplete scale, for Presidents including Wilson & Kennedy that has faded with time and analysis of the results they achieved (and the corresponding growth of respect for others, like Truman, who was much reviled by contemporary "analysts").

The public view of the so called "millennials" is also in my opinion a bit distorted. We have had to deal with many in my company - mostly graduate Environmental Scientists, Geologists and Engineers. My strong impression is that their (often expressed) sappy views fade quickly as they are faced with real responsibilities and accountability for projects (at least among those who survive). In addition we are recently seeing a second wave of neo conservatives among them who, in contrast, appear weary of all that ****.

There's no denying that your Bernie has ignited a new enthusiasm for government managed 'solutions' to an increasing array of social and economic issues. So far he has offered very little in the way of details regarding how such distant goals will be achieved, and none at all regarding the inevitable side effects of trying. It is worthwhile to note that the only jobs he has ever held were as Mayor, a Congressman and later a Senator. He has no experience in the real world of social and economic achievement.

Deserved or not I suspect his new competitors for the Democrat nomination will be strongly inclined to point out whatever contradictions or issues they can find in Sanders' career (and perhaps also that of his wife), all in an effort to discredit him and replace him themselves. In my view his long term tenure as leader of the Democrat Left is unlikely.

I'm also not sure the current public enthusiasm for Government managed "solutions" to social and economic issues will last. Increasingly perceptions of their inevitable intrusions on individual freedom and their usually unanticipated adverse side effects are being recognized by the public, Consider that so soon after the 2007 deflation of an economic bubble in the real estate market,- due entirely to the infusion of cheap government capital - we are suddenly surprised to see the same thing happening in university tuition with government managed student loans. Both failed to achieve their intended purpose and both had their victims - homeowners faced with underwater mortgages, and graduating students, burdened with debt.

I agree the unfolding political action in the country as we head towards the next election will remain very interesting. With their large (and still increasing) field of announced contenders Dmocrats face, to a greater degree, the problems Republicans faced in 2015 with their large group of contenders - a situation that left the party very disunited in its aftermath. Now, in the face of relentless refusal and hostility from Democrats, both publicly and in the Congress, Republicans are far more united than they have been for a long time.

What will come of all this is something I can't predict accurately. It will be very interesting to see what unfolds.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sun 14 Apr, 2019 09:14 pm
Oh yeah, childish legislators . . . we need to get back to the suck-up to the billionaires, give it to the clueless electorate up the backside, good ol' boys the Republicans usually provide.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2019 06:13 am
Quote:
"I will support whoever the Democratic nominee is," [Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez] prefaced when asked her opinion of a Biden candidacy during an interview with Yahoo News' "Skullduggery" podcast on Sunday. But a Biden run "does not particularly animate me right now," she said, citing "a lot of issues." 

"I can understand why people would be excited by that, this idea that we can go back to the good old days with Obama, with Obama’s vice president," she said. "There’s an emotional element to that, but I don’t want to go back. I want to go forward." 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/04/15/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-issues-with-joe-biden-run-2020/3470543002/
snood
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2019 10:48 am
@Olivier5,
“Doen’t animate me right now.”

I like that.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Apr, 2019 11:41 am
@snood,
Galant -- and very political -- way to put it. Who knew young people could learn?
0 Replies
 
 

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