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The Case For Biden

 
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 10:53 am
@snood,
But do you think he is up to it? His pictures shows him to look pretty tired and grieving since his son died. I wouldn't blame him if he turns it down.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 12:58 pm
Biden/Sanders - even Biden/Clinton (though she'd never tumble to it) all work for me. Congress is where our attention needs to be.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 12:59 pm
@roger,
Don't feel like fifty what to you?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 01:32 pm
I'd certainly vote for Biden over any of the Republicans.

I probably could vote for Biden over Hillary.

But I'm a registered Independent...and cannot vote for anyone in a primary.

Joe Biden would make a fine candidate...and if Hillary must be denied the nomination, I would vastly prefer Biden to Sanders.

I think Biden could easily win the general election...and I think Sanders would not have a chance. The country simply is not ready for someone like Sanders.

Biden with a reasonable woman in the second slot would be great with me.

Three current Dem Senators come to mind: Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, and Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota.

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 01:46 pm
If Biden runs he'll need a careful way round Clinton

Quote:
Washington (AFP) - Joe Biden is reportedly considering entering the 2016 White House race, a longshot move to present him as a safety net for Democrats worried about a possible implosion by frontrunner Hillary Clinton.

Biden, his family and his top advisors have begun actively exploring a run, The New York Times reported Sunday.

They are discussing the prospect with Democratic rainmakers and even some Clinton supporters spooked by signs she is vulnerable despite her standing in the polls.

And it has been reported that Biden's beloved son Beau, who died in May, encouraged his father from his deathbed to run for president.

A Biden bid would unquestionably upend the Democratic nomination race.

But, should he run, he would have to decide whether to take his former ally and fellow former senator head on and exploit her vulnerabilities, or only pounce if and when Clinton, who has been dogged by scandal, veers into trouble on the campaign trail.


More at the source. I am interested in the above paragraph. Do ya'll think he should pounce sooner or just wait it out and ride in at the last minute if it looks like Hillary is going under?

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 01:52 pm
I suspect that the recent declines in Hillary's poll ratings have caused real concern among Democrat political leaders, precisely because I believe most of them recognize that Sanders doesn't have a chance in the national election and that they have in effect placed all their bets on Hillary, and are merely using poor Bernie to create the illusion that there really is a contest for the Democrat nomination. Others may not agree with my assessment, but I think the evidence for it is very strong.

Given that the stakes in the national election are so high, it is merely prudent for Democrat leaders to encourage Biden to enter the race, just to reduce this risk. There are likely strongly felt personal issues among the candidates on these matters, but, given the observable close relationship between the MSM and the Democrats, the mere fact that this stuff is being so widely addressed from so many sources all at once tells us a lot.

I'm confident others will disagree, but I believe Sanders presence on the Democrat ticked, even as Vice Presidential candidate, would be a net negative for them. It's generally not hard for a party convention to find a Vice Presidential candidate and I believe that will likely be the case here.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 02:12 pm
@georgeob1,
I doubt too many will disagree here, maybe on the Sanders thread.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 02:16 pm
@georgeob1,
"Net negative" is a tempered way of stating that Sanders presence on the Dem ticket would be a political suicide move.

If the zealots here are not able to get the fact that the country is not even close to being ready for someone like Sanders or Warren...I can only hope there are clearer heads working out in the grassroots sector of progressive America.


georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 02:18 pm
@revelette2,
I think your speculation above about the likely emergence real elements of a political contest between Hillary and Biden is very interesting. The personal stakes are very high in such political contests and my bet is the candidates (if all this indeed happens) will find a way to make their respective casses, probably gently at first, but with likely increasingly pointed mutual criticism, given past the many precedents and the facts of human nature.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 02:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm inclined to agree with you. However, things do change and Bernie is doing well in his campaign appearances. He appears to exude an authenticity and real personality that often aren't seen in politicians. Lash is linely not alone in responding to this.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 02:50 pm
I have been doing a lot of reading today. One of the things I read was about the 5 top republican contenders who have billionare sugar daddies. They start out with unlimited funds to buy the media that will brain wash the average citizen, can you say communist. Dont worry after the next 18 mo. you will be able to. One of the things I read was a quote by, I dont know who, that stated "Democrats fall in love, republicans fall in line". I thought to myself that person must be an a/2/k'er. I think that the 30% of dem liberals see the world as they would like it to be rather than the world as it is. Sad. By the way, I like Biden very much, its Bernie I am afraid will elect a republican president.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 02:58 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I'm inclined to agree with you. However, things do change and Bernie is doing well in his campaign appearances. He appears to exude an authenticity and real personality that often aren't seen in politicians. Lash is linely not alone in responding to this.


I know she is not.

The thought depresses me.

My guess is that Sanders cannot win...and if he is included on the ticket...he will doom it.

The country simply is not ready for the likes of Bernie Sanders.

I do not consider that a slight against Bernie Sanders...I consider it something I regret about the American public.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:10 pm
@RABEL222,
I somewhat agree with you on that last sentence, Rabel, and I'm for him on a lot of his views.
On what democrats think as some kind of group, some may still be in the 'have given up mode' re what has happened with the slapshotting in congress and are trying to get along in their lives. I'll posit some dems don't know anything about Citizens United and the court vote. Lazy dems. (I get lazy can happen in real life, it covers most of us on lots of stuff).

One problem with our election system is, of course, money into media, from any side. I think the money system stinks.

The second is that political action types get a huge head start on whatever side of matters. Sort of a feed bin for readers or viewers, likely voters.

0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I think Bernie is an amiable moron who clings to socialist ideas that have failed utterly in their every application. The country is indeed "not ready" for him, and I earnestly hope it never will be.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:24 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

I think Bernie is an amiable moron who clings to socialist ideas that have failed utterly in their every application. The country is indeed "not ready" for him, and I earnestly hope it never will be.


Yeah...I kinda thought you felt that way.

Okay...we each have our own views.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:26 pm
@Frank Apisa,
more'n that. You each have separate universes of facts. Only We know whos right.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
farmerman is trying to make trouble and amuse himself.I gues he is the "we" who knows who is really right.

Geologists are like that. There's one under every rock.

We two do indeed have differing views about politics, but it appears we have learned to tolerate that in each other.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:48 pm
@georgeob1,
submarines and targets
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:51 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

farmerman is trying to make trouble and amuse himself.I gues he is the "we" who knows who is really right.

Geologists are like that. There's one under every rock.

We two do indeed have differing views about politics, but it appears we have learned to tolerate that in each other.


I think we have, George.

Not sure what FM is going on about...my opinion is that he usually is above this kind of thing, but sometimes it just happens...and he seems unable to shut it down.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Aug, 2015 03:52 pm
The chances of Sanders winning the nomination are almost zilch. I really can't see anyway the Dem establishment would support him over Clinton, Biden, or even O'Malley. If all three of them died in a bus crash, the Party would find a replacement other than Sanders.

I don't think he's as much of a socialist as he makes himself out to be, but he's said he's one and that would be the kiss of death for the goofy old coot in the general election.

It's interesting to consider who might be the better candidate in the general election: Clinton or Biden. Clearly, Biden is infinitely more personal than Clinton, but there are those pesky gaffes of which he is prone. The worst thing that can happen to a politician is to become a joke (to everyone, not just Jon Stewart) a series of gaffes in a row and the late night comedians will

be having a field day with "Crazy Uncle Joe" jokes. However, I think he might have a better shot than Clinton in drawing out the Obama coalition of voters.

Clinton has the "woman" card and it''s a strong one, but her negatives are high and getting worse. She's a terrible candidate, and I think it has to do with the fact that she's burned out. In terms of garnering Dem voters her biggest advantage is she is Dem. There seems to be a real shortage of people talking up her virtues as one might expect. Even liberals have to be put off by her lying and influence peddling, even if they will never admit it to a conservative. However, they will all hold their noses and vote for her over any GOP candidate. The question is can she attract the Obama coalition in sufficient numbers. I really don't think so. We can expect her to pander to these blocs, but (except perhaps for women) it won't ring true and especially if she puts on black and Mexican accents in stump speeches (In addition to having no shame, she has a tin ear).

I don't want Biden or Clinton as president, but if I have to have one, I want Biden.

He is pretty old but he seems fit and we know he's lively. Whereas Clinton looks unfit, and tired. I think there would be a better chance of her taking a dirt nap in office than him.

Personally, I would like to see Carly Fiorino win the GOP nomination, but that ain't happening. It's going to be Jeb Bush, Scott Walker or Marco Rubio. (In that order of probability).

Conservatives haven't taken over the party establishment so there won't be a Goldwater to slaughter.
0 Replies
 
 

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