The Case For Biden

God’s sake, MDS openly ordered a man to be murdered and dismembered.
I understand the delicate politics of offending the de facto controller of the world’s biggest oil exporting outfit.

But maybe that shouldn’t be our first consideration.

1 Reply

@snood,

He did, and Biden released the CIA report accusing him of such.

What action should he take?

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@izzythepush,

Yeah, Putin ordered a man poisoned, then arrested him when he returned to the country for violating parole while he was fighting for his life in the hospital. It's definitely hard to hold foreign bad actors to account. My guess is Saudi Arabia will become much more friendly with China now.

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@engineer,

There’s also the behaviour of the ruler of Dubai to be taken into consideration. The kidnap and continued imprisonment of Princess Latifa is big news over here.

Trump wanted to have some success and bringing the Gulf states into a peace agreement with Israel was all that mattered, human rights be damned.

That’s something Biden has to try to disentangle himself from.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

He did, and Biden released the CIA report accusing him of such.

What action should he take?

No need to be an ass about it, Izzy.

I’ll make a deal with you. I won’t act as if Biden has a clear, easy course of action to hold MDS accountable, and you don’t act as if it’s already a foregone conclusion that he can’t (or shouldn’t) possibly do more.

There are smarter, more connected people than you and I who are disagreeing with each other about what should be done about MDS.

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@snood,

You’ve said you’re disappointed with the action Biden has taken yet can’t say what action he should take.

Pointing that out somehow makes me an ass.

What you need to realise is that the ME is totally different to what you’re used to. They still talk about the crusades as if it were recent history.

There are limits on what action Biden can take that would yield positive results.

I think his approach is the right one, anything else would be counterproductive.

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Quote:

One of today’s biggest stories is that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence today released its assessment of the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in October 2018 at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, Turkey. Khashoggi was a Saudi Arabian journalist whose criticism of his country’s government had driven him into exile in the U.S., where he worked for the Washington Post. The DNI placed blame for the murder on Saudi Arabia’s current crown prince, Muhammad bin Salman, whose name is often abbreviated as MBS.

By law, the Trump administration was supposed to release the intelligence community’s assessment of the killing, but it refused. In her confirmation hearings, Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines promised she would do so. The report was delayed until President Biden could speak to King Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud, the king of Saudi Arabia. MBS is the king’s son and is the third crown prince Salman has named since becoming king in 2015. Biden has made it a point to refuse to communicate with MBS, despite the Trump administration’s willingness to treat him as the country’s de facto ruler. Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner apparently considered MBS a friend. Biden will speak only with the king.

The readout of the conversation said Biden spoke with the king “to address the longstanding partnership between the United States and Saudi Arabia.” They discussed ending the war in Yemen, “and affirmed the importance the United States places on universal human rights and the rule of law.” Earlier this month, Biden ended U.S. support for Saudi Arabia’s military engagement in Yemen, a fight launched by MBS, which has led to a humanitarian crisis there. The Trump administration’s huge arms sales to Saudi Arabia, including top-line F-35 fighters, were widely seen as a way to support the Saudi war effort; Biden has frozen the sales for review.

Now he has added sanctions to the former deputy Saudi intelligence chief and to the Saudi Royal Guard’s rapid intervention force, whose members have been identified as those behind the murder. Their assets in the U.S. are frozen, and they cannot deal with Americans. The U.S. also restricted the visas of 76 Saudi citizens and some of their family members.

substack

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@hightor,

Talking of Turkey, the BBC is showing a documentary about James Le Mesurier, the founder of the Syrian white helmets who died in mysterious circumstances in Istanbul.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

You’ve said you’re disappointed with the action Biden has taken yet can’t say what action he should take.

Pointing that out somehow makes me an ass.

What you need to realise is that the ME is totally different to what you’re used to. They still talk about the crusades as if it were recent history.

There are limits on what action Biden can take that would yield positive results.

I think his approach is the right one, anything else would be counterproductive.

“Anything else” would be counterproductive? How do you know that?You don’t. You just don’t have enough humility to admit it.

You think you know what kind of Middle East I’m “used to”. You don’t.
You think you know every possible course of action our defense and intelligence agencies could pursue. You couldn’t possibly.

I don’t think you’re an ass because you pointed out our difference of opinion about Biden and the ME, Izzy.

The reason I said you’re an ass is because you automatically take a condescending, sneering tone in every discussion, and it’s offensive. I guess that’s just the way you talk to people.

You can have the last word. Not sure if I’ll read it.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

The reason I said you're an ass is because you automatically take a condescending, sneering tone in every discussion, and it's offensive.

You don't see the very same tone in all of your posts??

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@snood,

I think you’re being over sensitive and insulting.

I don’t take a condescending tone at all. I asked you a question which you were unable to answer.

That’s not me being condescending that’s you letting your mouth run away with you.

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@snood,

I have always treated you with respect and have apologised on more than one occasion. I’ve also admitted to being wrong.

I have said why I think Biden is doing as much as he can, namely Saudi patriotism and domestic support for the crown prince as a reformer.

You have said you are disappointed with Biden’s performance so far, yet when I ask what you think he should be doing you have nothing.

I have humility enough to admit when I’m wrong, but you have given me nothing. If I’m wrong about the situation in Saudi Arabia re patriotism of its citizens and support for the crown prince as a reformer meaning any stronger action would be counterproductive then please point out where I’m wrong.

I have given my reasoning, you’ve offered nothing but hand wringing.

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This is NOT in response to Izzythepush

Releasing the CIA report that made official the US position that MBS was responsible for the murder/dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggie
was not taking action - it was just a symbolic gesture. Everyone already knew MBS had done it.

It would be unprecedented for the US to take the step of imposing direct sanction on the leader of a country who is a strategic ally.

But the argument could be made that the offenses committed by MBS are unprecedented.

MBS will remain basically untouched by any consequence for his crimes. And that’s not ok.

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@snood,

I suppose if the US relied much more on nuclear power (especially sodium-cooled reactors) we would have more freedom to disregard Saudi interests.

Gotta crush the anti-nuke movement though before that will ever happen.

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@oralloy,

nuke is a real fossil fuel like coal, its dirty, potentially dangerous, overr regulation is required to keep it safe, siting criteria are all fucked up and politically driven (Over reg (Dem) to NO reg-(GOP).
Its a stupid fuel option for more than an interim "Bridge"

We are bathed with over 50000 X our projected energy use (Per Acre) jut solar alone. Let the market decide. Seems you do the same thing with nuke that you blame "progressives" over fosil

1 Reply

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

nuke is a real fossil fuel like coal, its dirty,

That is incorrect. It is quite clean.

farmerman wrote:

potentially dangerous,

What isn't?

farmerman wrote:

over regulation is required to keep it safe,

So be it.

farmerman wrote:

siting criteria are all fucked up and politically driven (Over reg (Dem) to NO reg-(GOP).

A moderate amount of overregulation is a good thing when it comes to nuclear power.

Perhaps the nation could come up with some rational way of making nuclear regulations that isn't tainted with politics.

farmerman wrote:

Its a stupid fuel option for more than an interim "Bridge"
We are bathed with over 50000 X our projected energy use (Per Acre) jut solar alone.

If we ever get to the point where we can utilize renewable energy to that extent, great.

But I'm not holding my breath.

farmerman wrote:

Let the market decide.

OK.

farmerman wrote:

Seems you do the same thing with nuke that you blame "progressives" over fosil

How so?

Speaking of fossil fuels, delaying the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline also works to keep the civilized world beholden to Saudi Arabia.

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@oralloy,

actually it I a hemical Fossil that arrived on earth a billion or two yers earlier. Youve merely confused "Fossil" to be limited to biotic sources. (You do know that methane/ethane can be produced in a NON fossil means yet wwe call em a fossil fuel) A"wet gas, to be exact"

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@oralloy,

Actually since The obama years the u.s. has produced more energy
than it has consumed. Just ask Google and she will tell you. So the Saudis are merely a luxury not a neccesity.

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The US is maintaining its alliance with Saudi Arabia, not because of its oil, but because of their mutual animosity towards Iran.

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@InfraBlue,

Are you saying the petrodollar has nothing to do with it?

Not to mention all the disposable income the Saudis have.

1 Reply

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