The Case For Biden

@McGentrix,

I believe I've only judged Trump on actions and thoughts he's had since being president, but maybe you know better than me.

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@revelette1,

Of course we hold them accountable in our own party.

I'm saying that if this comment that Biden made 44 years ago was the precursor to a career of racism and anti-black behavior then I'd have a problem with it.

Turns out, it wasn't and we have 44 years of political history to judge Biden on.

The Washington Post has an article that I trust more than the conservative tabloid you linked to.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bidens-tough-talk-on-1970s-school-desegregation-plan-could-get-new-scrutiny-in-todays-democratic-party/2019/03/07/9115583e-3eb2-11e9-a0d3-1210e58a94cf_story.html?utm_term=.f5c1ddda9c48

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@McGentrix,

Quote:

Yet, both of you believe that not only should Trump be judged so, so should his father and grand father...

The behavior of his father and grandfather are irrelevant, but you have to realize the difference between holding questionable beliefs or engaging in dubious activities in the past, then admitting it and feeling remorseful or embarrassed about it years later, as contrasted to denying or fudging past beliefs or behavior. With few exceptions — his past support of abortion rights, for instance — Trump never admits to having done anything which might make him look bad to his base or which could be used by his opponents. When the Access Hollywood tapes came out, he could have used it as an opportunity to say how he'd moved on and explain his evolution. Instead he issued a brief "apology" — and then suggested a few months later that he wasn't sure the voice was even his. See the difference?

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@maporsche,

Of important note, is that he wasn't against desegregation, he made comments against forced integration and quotas and busing.

Now, I'm not old enough to remember (these comments were made before I was born) or have the knowledge of history to know how off base these comments were at the time, but I think there is a big difference between being in favor of segregation and being opposed to forced integration. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I can see a pretty big distinction.

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@maporsche,

I think that was the article I first read which got to me rethink Biden. Before then, I liked him the best.

I'll just wait and see if anything comes of it and to see how he answers questions concerning his segregation support. So far, he isn't owing up to it nor has he himself explained it recently that I am aware of.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

concerning his segregation support.

That's the thing Rev...I think you have this wrong.

I haven't seem anything regarding him supporting segregation. The WaPo article doesn't say that he does. The quotes I've seen from him don't say that he does.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

You’re kicking ass. I love it when somebody swims against the tide when it’s so much easier to go with the flow.

I expect you’ll get about ten very concerned private messages about feeding the local Kraken, but no matter. Kudos to you for voicing an opinion you knew would draw disagreement.

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@maporsche,

Quote:

Then, as a court-ordered integration plan loomed over Wilmington, Delaware, in 1974, Biden’s constituents transformed their resistance to busing into an organized—and angry—opposition. So Biden transformed, too. That year, Joe Biden morphed into a leading anti-busing crusader—all the while continuing to insist that he supported the goal of school desegregation, he only opposed busing as the means to achieve that end.

This stance, which many of Biden’s liberal and moderate colleagues also held, was clever but disingenuous. It enabled Biden to choose votes over principles, while acting as if he was not doing so.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968

Read the entire article, it is really informative of the times.

I am not saying that if it come down to Biden or a republican, I would choose the republican, I wouldn't. I am just saying, there is a side to Biden I didn't know existed. I am not saying he is racist because he supported and supports too many good legislations for minorities and women. I am just saying in that case, he went the wrong direction. Bussing may have been a messy business (according to that article) but like the supreme court said, in effect, what was the alternative? It was bussing or segregation.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

...he supported and supports too many good legislations for minorities and women. I am just saying in that case, he went the wrong direction.

He was 32 years old at the time and in an era that is FULL of questionable thoughts and behaviors that if all were looked at through 2019 lenses, there are few people who don't have questionable positions back then.

I'm NOT willing to dismiss all that Biden has done for this country because of a view he held in his early 30's that is NOT indicative of the legislature the man spent his career in support of.

Politico ran a counter-story to the one you posted, here's a link

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/school-busing-civil-rights-121077
School Busing Didn’t Work. And to Say So Isn’t Racist.

Slate also has an interesting article.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/02/how-the-lefts-embrace-of-busing-hurt-the-cause-of-integration.html
How the left’s embrace of busing hurt the cause of integration.

This doesn't tarnish Biden in my eyes. Again, he won't get my vote in the primaries, but this line of attack against him seems suspect.

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@maporsche,

Martin Luther King Jr had an interesting comment on integration.

Quote:

Integration, as Martin Luther King put it, is “true intergroup, interpersonal living … the positive acceptance of desegregation and the welcomed participation of Negroes into the total range of human activities.” Integration is the forming of relationships based on mutual trust and respect. Schools could be forced to desegregate—that is, to accept black students—but genuine integration, as King said, was an “unenforceable” demand. The government can put us in the same room, but they can’t make us get along.

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Urban busing raised as many problems as it solved. It helped to drive much of the white working class to vote Republican. It helped to destroy a lot of the goodwill that had once existed between Jews and the black community. The ugliness of the white opposition in Boston rivaled anything that happened in the deep South.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F13%2Fa3%2F28%2F13a328703207d25c36d34779ad2f0bfb.jpg&f=1

I think many liberals now see busing as a mistaken policy; one which seemed to be a simple, and relatively cheap, solution to an intractable social problem. A comprehensive solution would have been much more difficult, much slower, and a lot more expensive. Real solutions usually are.

(I do like the references to "bussing" — it means "kissing".)

1 Reply

@hightor,

During the time of enforced busing, there was no one offering any “comprehensive” integration plan. It was either do or don’t do busing. Unfortunately real world American politics don’t seem to allow for tidy solutions. Ugly half measures that result from compromises born of desperation are much more likely. Throw in considerations of race, bigotry and historical grievance, and the compromises take on even more urgency.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Well, I think we've gone as far as we can on this issue because I don't know what else to say. However, I am glad through this discussion I searched deeper into the issue surrounding his stance on desegregation. When I first read it, it read like he was just against desegregation point blank. There was lot a more to it and I thank you for this discussion. I think he gave into pressure from the white working class in his area but that's just my opinion.

I still think Biden needs to talk about it if it gets brought up. I haven't heard about too much on the news though.

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@revelette1,

You said you'd vote for Biden in November 2020 if he was the nominee against Trump, so I'm happy.

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@revelette1,

Living as I do in a country setting I have always been against busing because there is one central school and some kids were forced to be away from home for 10 hours with the eight hour school day and than the 4 hour bus ride. 2 hours to school and 2 hours home.

1 Reply

@snood,

Quote:

During the time of enforced busing, there was no one offering any “comprehensive” integration plan.

For sure. It would have required a massive reform of our social systems, institutions, and reimagining what it even means to be a citizen of the USA. All this would have required a nationwide effort, lots of money, and most importantly, a willingness to look at ourselves in a mirror and accept that racial injustice was (and remains) a serious problem. What we got was a form of well-intentioned bean counting in public schools.

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@RABEL222,

I hear you but how else are kids going to get to school? Most counties have their schools consolidated in KY. I know some kids who have to get up before day break to catch the bus and they don't get home until dark. We live fairly close to all the schools, but there are some way out there places in my county which used to have their own grade school until all the schools were consolidated. So I reckon those of us who live in rural areas still have a messy busing system. (as opposed to kissing system. lol)

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What do you think is the most damning Biden fact?
Morally and politically? The one that you think will be most damaging politically—and the one that bothers YOU the most?

For me, his insulting attack against Anita Hill was morally repugnant, but I think his swipe against millennials may hurt worse if he decides to get in.

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Joe Biden Reportedly Considering Stacey Abrams As Running Mate

That would bump the case for Biden way, way up, IMO.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

Joe Biden Reportedly Considering Stacey Abrams As Running Mate

That would bump the case for Biden way, way up, IMO.

On the surface it seems like a good idea, but there are a couple of things to consider. For one thing, no one has ever chosen a running mate this early and it could come off like pandering. I like Abrams a lot.

2 Replies

The Case For Biden

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