33
   

The Case For Biden

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Oct, 2015 06:45 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Oh hawkeye, read the goddamn article and stop trying to act like you know everything.

I know the history, Boehner thought that he was king, that he could present what he called the best deal he could get without ever collaborating with his people, and that they would say yes because he thought that he had the best logical argument. THis is exactly what The Professor does, and it does not work any better for him . Leadership is not about being the smartest, and it is not about presenting a plan to the troops and expecting them to rubber stamp it. Even in the military that does not work for long, and it only works at all for those leaders who have already proved themselves, those who have proven themselves worthy of blind loyalty.

Actually what we should talk about is why we cant make leaders anymore, and why too many of us think that people who suck at leadership like Boehner and Obama are decent leaders.

Just as we are almost complete ignorance on the ways of power these days we are starved for leadership and we are ignorant about what a good leader looks like.

Myself excluded, Unlike most I did get myself educated.

And the post was cheap. Prove me wrong if you can. And you wont.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Mon 19 Oct, 2015 06:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
It’s tempting to lay all the blame for this toxic political situation on the hardline conservatives in the House, but Boehner ultimately made things worse for himself and for everyone else by stringing them along and making promises he couldn’t keep. He would talk tough about standing up to President Obama and reining in an out-of-control president, even though he was fully aware that he lacked any real power to do the sort of damage to Obama’s agenda that he promised. Boehner pursued this reflexively anti-Obama course because it was electorally beneficial and because it helped secure his own position, but it came at the expense of any real accomplishment.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/25/john_boehners_legacy_of_failure_he_resigns_with_few_admirers_and_fewer_accomplishments/

"made things worse for himself" is too kind by a country mile, I'll bet that this is written by an R hater who wants to hate all R's...he gave up any chance of success by way of bad judgment. Another thing that he and Obama can swap stories on soon.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Mon 19 Oct, 2015 07:25 pm
Some years ago, I don't known when, I read about a bunch of guys, Republicans, living closely, near the US capital. Boehmer was one of them. I remember it mostly that they all seemed ok, very religious, interesting re the quotes.This was in a New Yorker article.

I'm not anti religion but I can be angry at some of it.

Sorry that I forget that exact article and also sorry that I am not good at looking up NYer archives. In my case, it has to do with some old cookies I can't get rid of.


Still, that article happened and featured Boener et al.
I hope someone can find it.

Much as I like the New Yorker I consider them way out of line, aka, assholes, for openness.

0 Replies
 
snood
 
  3  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 06:59 am
I've always liked Joan Walsh, and hardly ever have disagreed with her. I don't disagree with this latest she writes about Biden being a net negative for the Dems:
 The Democratic Primary Doesn’t Need Joe Biden

http://www.thenation.com/article/the-democratic-primary-doesnt-need-joe-biden/

"...There’s also a missing political and policy rationale for a Biden candidacy. He can’t really run to Clinton’s left; in the 110th Congress he was the 33rd-most-liberal senator; she was 11th. Sanders was first, and the junior senator from Illinois came in 23rd. Clinton may have represented Wall Street (an unfortunate phrasing Tuesday night), but he represented Delaware’s credit-card industry, and played a big role in legislation making it tougher for consumers to declare bankruptcy. Senator Elizabeth Warren called him out for it in her last book.

In a campaign that’s been shaped by the Black Lives Matter movement, Biden would have to defend his role in every major piece of anti-crime and anti-drug legislation of the 1990s, including the 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act signed by President Clinton, which he wrote.

Finally, challenging the woman with the best chance to become president in American history, he’d have to answer for a decent but decidedly mixed record on women’s issues. ..."
revelette2
 
  1  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 08:27 am
@snood,
The more I thought about the whole thing, I don't think it was Biden's intention to challenge Hillary Clinton. I think he was just waiting in the wings as a second so to speak in case Hillary went down which is why he hasn't announced his presidency bid. I don't think he will run unless sometime before the deadline Hillary really starts to go under Sanders which so far is not happening.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 09:39 am
@revelette2,
I mostly agree. I think hes really helping Hillary by giving us a double dose of notoriety .
snood
 
  1  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 09:57 am
@farmerman,
But, if he actually enters, I don't think he's helping her.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 10:00 am
@snood,
thats why i dont think he will . hes a stalking horse ,or mule
engineer
 
  2  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 10:44 am
I think Biden doesn't want to run and has never wanted to run. He's happy with Clinton as the candidate, but some people kept telling him Clinton is a weak candidate so he kept his powder dry in case he was needed. As others mentioned, his voting record is pretty far right for a Democrat, but my guess is that he's drifted left over the last eight years. I just can't see him getting in. He doesn't add anything new to the field.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 10:46 am
@farmerman,
That assumes good relations and cooperation between him and Hillary. Some here (ahem ...Lash) are assuming not-so collegial relations between the two.
I don't know who's right. I'm hoping you are.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 12:23 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
Here's an interesting read if you want the entire story. It is an excellent read, I highly recommend it if you are really interested in the failed "Grand Bargain".

It is clear that Mr. Boehner did not have the ability to carry his caucus after the White House started asking for even more revenue. At that point his caucus would not accept even the original deal.

But if the request for even more revenue had never been made, could Mr. Boehner have been able to convince his caucus to accept the original deal? That's a question that can never be answered.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Tue 20 Oct, 2015 07:59 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
It’s tempting to lay all the blame for this toxic political situation on the hardline conservatives in the House, but Boehner ultimately made things worse for himself and for everyone else by stringing them along and making promises he couldn’t keep. He would talk tough about standing up to President Obama and reining in an out-of-control president, even though he was fully aware that he lacked any real power to do the sort of damage to Obama’s agenda that he promised. Boehner pursued this reflexively anti-Obama course because it was electorally beneficial and because it helped secure his own position, but it came at the expense of any real accomplishment.

http://www.salon.com/2015/09/25/john_boehners_legacy_of_failure_he_resigns_with_few_admirers_and_fewer_accomplishments/

"made things worse for himself" is too kind by a country mile, I'll bet that this is written by an R hater who wants to hate all R's...he gave up any chance of success by way of bad judgment. Another thing that he and Obama can swap stories on soon.

Ryan is already proving to be a better leader, he is telling the House R's " **** you, till/unless you agree to follow I am not interested". Boehner never had the smarts nor the balls to make the right play.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 10:21 am
Joe's out!
And I like how he announced it. I'm so relieved.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 10:26 am
@snood,
my twitter feed is jammed up with this right now


Wesley LoweryVerified account ‏@WesleyLowery 3m3 minutes ago
Did Elizabeth Warren write this speech for Biden?

Michele ‏@inthefade 3m3 minutes ago
Biden foregoing a presidential run to focus on his Foghat cover band.


Matt ViserVerified account ‏@mviser 3m3 minutes ago
Joe Biden announces he's not running for president. Then, launches into a presidential stump speech

Ben ShapiroVerified account ‏@benshapiro 4m4 minutes ago
Joe Biden says he won't run, then launches into a campaign speech. Has someone told him the news he's not running yet?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 01:22 pm
Quote:
If you don’t know the difference between a Republican and a Democrat in 2016, you haven’t been paying attention.

But he was not the only grizzled political veteran making this sort of claim this week. At the time of this writing we are still “Waiting for Joe” but from the sound of the Vice Presidents Biden’s comments, if he isn’t running he’s decided to throw his weight behind Jim Webb’s possible Independent campaign. He came out swinging against Hillary Clinton, with a sucker punch over her admission in the recent debate that among the NRA, the pharmaceutical industry and the Iranians, she’s also proud that Republicans consider her an enemy. Her comment was greeted with wild cheering among Democrats who viscerally agreed with her allusion to Roosevelt’s famous line about “welcomed their hatred” in reference to the party which has turned from an opposition party into a gang of anarchists and witch hunters. Oddly, Biden seems to think that fairly obvious recognition of reality is a weakness. He made the point in several different venues over the last couple of days that he does not think of Republicans as “enemies” but rather sees them as friends, the implication being that he will be able to work with them in ways the former secretary of state cannot.

Ezra Klein suggests in this piece for Vox that this may be Biden’s argument going forward and the ultimate rationale for his campaign. Unfortunately, while this sweet sentiment surely pleases the ghosts of Tip O’Neill and Ronald Reagan, it has no bearing on the reality of American politics in 2016.

I have written about this before, but it’s worth repeating. Dan Pfeiffer, one of President Obama’s closest advisors, gave an exit interview to Jonathan Chait when he left the White House a while back, in which he explained the evolution of thinking from the time the administration first assumed office.

Per Chait:

Quote:
The original premise of Obama’s first presidential campaign was that he could reason with Republicans—or else, by staking out obviously reasonable stances, force them to moderate or be exposed as extreme and unyielding. It took years for the White House to conclude that this was false, and that, in Pfeiffer’s words, “what drives 90 percent of stuff is not the small tactical decisions or the personal relationships but the big, macro political incentives.”


It certainly did not help that Joe Biden was friends with Republicans back in 2011 when he went behind Harry Reid’s back and negotiated the deal which will be remembered as the low point of the Obama administration — a low point which served as a lesson in how not to deal with Republicans.

Biden’s paean to bipartisanship is old thinking, a vestige of the past. That he is still making this argument in the face of all we know should strike fear into the hearts of Democrats everywhere, should he actually become president.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/joe_bidens_disastrous_gop_strategy_why_making_a_campaign_about_bipartisanship_can_only_end_in_failure/

Bidens instincts were true, whether he has the skill level to pull it off is very debateable, but I would have supported his efforts to fix Washington. Someone has to try.
farmerman
 
  1  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 02:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
I was certain he ouldnt run and took some bets with folks here. Joe Biden may be a politician but he has always jumped through hoops to maintain his family life for the years after his first wife was killed.

(Hed been at a political rally in Georgetown Del and did a "carpface" like TRUMP does and put his index finger over his mouth when someone in the rally shouted out for him to announce that he was NPOT going to run.
Hes starting a series of foundations and hes prt of some real people to people things in Sussex County del that seem to have his interests (Most of them have to do with whipping cancer)

I think Joe is looking forward to becoming a kind of "Jimmy Carter" for his home state and hes counting the days till Jan 2016 inauguration.



ANYBODY who thought the college "plagiarism" issue would have affected him, never realizes that TRUMP , (if he is so damn lucky to be the candidate) would have so much more baggage that Biden would be left quietly alone.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 02:06 pm
@farmerman,
Hopefully we dont need to wait for the books to find out how close he came to saying yes, and why he decided no.

My guess is that he would have tried to fix Washington, that he made it clear to the insiders that he would try, so he did not get the support from the money men and the D party apparatchik that he would have needed. Both the Left and the Right continue to get more radical, very few people are yet ready to work with people they dont agree with for the good of the country. The fact that the Clintons always crucify those who defy them is of course always there too, and matters.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 02:18 pm
@farmerman,
I don't see that he would have done much better than the other two times he took at run at it. People still didn't see him as a serious contender. He was still pretty much invisible to the general public. People who are 'into' politics see him differently, but he doesn't resonate with a less politically-involved audience.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 04:05 pm
It seems that the Hillary Clinton supporters in this forum are basing their opinions on whether or not Biden gets in on their underlying hope that he does not.

Every day there are new signs that he intends to enter the race, because every day there are no signs that she has overcome her weaknesses.

If you are the VP and a Democrat you don't publicly state that Republicans are not your enemy after your parties front-runner said that very thing...unless you are positioned to jump in. Until he does, there's always the chance that he won't, but that chance is driven by Clinton's performance and nothing else.

ehBeth
 
  2  
Wed 21 Oct, 2015 04:38 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Every day there are new signs that he intends to enter the race


did you miss his announcement earlier today? when he said, no, not running.
 

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