The Case For Biden

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I think Biden has a better rep in Congress for cajoling/arm twisting and getting to a deal. He was the President's point man in the Iran vote. That said, with the current makeup of the Congress I don't think it will matter much.

Good point...If anyone can work with an R Congress it is Biden. "If you want something to get done in Washington without letting the R's run the table then vote Biden "is a winning pitch.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

engineer wrote:

I think Biden has a better rep in Congress for cajoling/arm twisting and getting to a deal. He was the President's point man in the Iran vote. That said, with the current makeup of the Congress I don't think it will matter much.

Good point...If anyone can work with an R Congress it is Biden. "If you want something to get done in Washington without letting the R's run the table then vote Biden "is a winning pitch.

I hadn't really considered the difference in what kind of success the 3 prospective nominees (Clinton, Sanders, Biden) might have trying to work with a Republican controlled Congress. I really, REALLY hope Joe stays out at this point, but I can see the sense in the argument that he might have a better chance at forging alliances than the other two.

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@snood,

I'm the one who brought that up. Harrumph, though I didn't and am not sure of the answer.

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@snood,

It gets down to this question: would the R's be willing to work with a D president on anything under the right conditions? I think the answer is yes, that the reason they did not work with Obama is that they decided that he has a nasty personality and he is a chump, so he is easy to make look bad. And that sure worked. I also think this rebellion of the little people will motivate them to find some way to get some business done, because they have been watching it grow for several election cycles now, it is not going away, it must be dealt with. The D's at best are only going to own the White House. They owe America putting someone in the chair who has a chance of success. That would be Biden over Clinton no doubt.

I actually think that this is the argument that gets Biden to run. I dont like him much for his male bashing, but he is good at politics, a ton better than Clinton, and he still remembers some of the old ways when Washington actually worked. That institutional memory (not the exact right term but you know what I mean) is critical if Washington is going to repair itself. I think there are a lot of retired R's that could be called back into service in the project of fixing Washington, and I think a lot of them trust Biden enough to work with him on it.

We will know in days what he is going to do. I hope it is a yes, for Americas sake.

1 Reply

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

I think Biden has a better rep in Congress for cajoling/arm twisting and getting to a deal. He was the President's point man in the Iran vote. That said, with the current makeup of the Congress I don't think it will matter much.

I have to agree. If the House can't even get a member to agree to accept the position of Speaker, it's a lost cause. I wouldn't give odds on any Republican presidential candidate doing well with Congress, either.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

It gets down to this question: would the R's be willing to work with a D president on anything under the right conditions? I think the answer is yes...

So why do you believe that? Before you hand wave something, think about it. Point out some evidence that the House and the Senate are willing to put the country ahead of their personal agendas, something like where the House puts forth a bill to prevent the country from defaulting on its debts without throwing the markets into turmoil with a lot of grandstanding. If they saw Obama as someone they weren't willing to work with there is no evidence that Biden would be received any more warmly. He wasn't able to get a single Republican vote for the Iran agreement.

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@engineer,

Quote:

So why do you believe that? Before you hand wave something, think about it. Point out some evidence that the House and the Senate are willing to put the country ahead of their personal agendas, something like where the House puts forth a bill to prevent the country from defaulting on its debts without throwing the markets into turmoil with a lot of grandstanding.

I answered that

1)Obama was a poor president easy to make look bad

2) fear of the little people

3) Biden would bring some of the adults back to Washington to act as chaperones.

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@hawkeye10,

If the adults aren't in Congress now, they won't be there when Biden is in charge, Biden has been there the last eight years (plus a couple of decades before that) and didn't get any support and little people are still around. What's going to be different?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

You must think Democrats are as easily duped as the tea baggers. Nice try.

1 Reply

@engineer,

engineer wrote:

If the adults aren't in Congress now, they won't be there when Biden is in charge, Biden has been there the last eight years (plus a couple of decades before that) and didn't get any support and little people are still around. What's going to be different?

Sure they will, Biden will put a bunch of them in his administration, and he will working with Congress set up some systems to bypass normal procedures due to the emergency, likely to look somewhat like the base closing commissions.

Obama did not fail because the R's suck, Obama failed because he never tried. Obama has always rather had the club to beat R's with than a solution. He has been no more dedicated to getting the nations business done that the R's have been, and actually I would say that Obama has been worse because had has done such a piss poor job of running the government because he clearly does not give a tinkers damn about good government. There are ways to get things done once people decide that they want to get things done.

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@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

You must think Democrats are as easily duped as the tea baggers. Nice try.

If you grow up you might be able to add something useful. I am not holding my breath.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

So why do you believe that? Before you hand wave something, think about it. Point out some evidence that the House and the Senate are willing to put the country ahead of their personal agendas, something like where the House puts forth a bill to prevent the country from defaulting on its debts without throwing the markets into turmoil with a lot of grandstanding. If they saw Obama as someone they weren't willing to work with there is no evidence that Biden would be received any more warmly. He wasn't able to get a single Republican vote for the Iran agreement.

Mr. Boehner negotiated a grand bargain with Mr. Obama at one point, which would have balanced the budget through both spending cuts and tax increases.

Then Mr. Obama gave in to pressure from the Left to renegotiate the deal and squeeze the Republicans harder.

Mr. Boehner got the Right to go along with the original deal (barely). He could not get the Right to go along with Mr. Obama's new harsher terms.

Perhaps Mr. Biden would have been more willing to compromise, and would have been happy with the original deal struck with Mr. Boehner.

Perhaps not. For all I know, Mr. Biden could have been the one pushing Mr. Obama to renegotiate for harsher terms.

But in any case there is certainly evidence that the Republican leadership is willing to compromise if they find someone who is willing to compromise with them.

(I remain convinced that the 2013 gun control debacle will hand the 2016 election to the Republicans. But it is possible that the Democrats might win back the White House in 2024. I have no idea if the Republicans will continue to control Congress in 2024.)

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Obama was cannoned for now near eight years, plus all the before episodes. He is a sturdy person to have lived through it and still care for this country.

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@hawkeye10,

Boehner was an adult and he's gone. The children are squabbling about who is going to be rule the treehouse and they feel that defaulting on the national debt is something we should debate. I don't see anyone deciding that the want to get things done and Biden can't put adults in the House when the "little people" keep electing the people calling for a government shutdown. Plus, Biden is going to staff his administration with the same folks who staff his office now, the ones you hold in such low regard. If you want a Presidency that looks the most like the current one, you elect Biden. After all, he is the number two guy.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Mr. Boehner negotiated a grand bargain with Mr. Obama at one point, which would have balanced the budget through both spending cuts and tax increases.

Then Mr. Obama gave in to pressure from the Left to renegotiate the deal and squeeze the Republicans harder.

That's the Republican line. The Democratic line is that tax increases were in the deal and Boehner couldn't deliver so he panicked, backed out and made up the story that the President came up with new demands. Here's an interesting read if you want the entire story. It is an excellent read, I highly recommend it if you are really interested in the failed "Grand Bargain".

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@engineer,

Which goes to show that even with this poor cast of characters a deal almost got done. It should not be hard to imagine it getting done next Congress with better leadership on the Hill and in the WhiteHouse, and the new fear of the little people in everybody.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Quote:

Boehner was an adult and he's gone.

Boehner was a terrible leader, very few skills, and even less courage. He also does not have the relationships to fall back on. All of that gets solved by bringing R adults back to Washington under the request of the reformers.

We have over a decade worth of good R's who left Washington because they were disgusted and decided that they were wasting their time. They would come back under an emergency program if they thought there was half a chance of doing good work.

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@hawkeye10,

Did you bother to read the article? Boehner was pushing full bore with zero support from his party and keeping his number two (Cantor) in the dark. One Republican adult willing to make a deal backed by a Congress full of clueless Reps. He's gone, laughing all the way back to Ohio and all the little people are convinced that Congress sucks but their rep is awesome.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Quote:

Did you bother to read the article? Boehner was pushing full bore with zero support from his party and keeping his number two (Cantor) in the dark.

I really dont need you help with the argument that Boehner is a poor leader, but thanks....

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Oh hawkeye, read the goddamn article and stop trying to act like you know everything.

1 Reply

The Case For Biden

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