The Case For Biden

I'm strongly for Sanders, versus Clinton, but I could get quite happy about a Biden-cy.

I've matters of concern with both Sanders and Biden, but think Biden may be more able to win the bucket.

I also see ehBeth's point but not clear that it is good or bad. Thinking, good overall.

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This is the thinking among Bernie supporters re Biden's possible entry: It is good for Bernie.

Bernie's name recog is growing (especially with Time cover and a great night on Colbert) but it would be much easier if his % threshhold was 30% rather than 50%. Biden's entry gives us that.

Some may think Biden takes from Bernie. We believe strongly that that is incorrect. Bernie is bringing people in to the process who'd left. Bernies are BERNIES. They ain't going NOWHERE.

Hillary's voters, however, may be much more receptive to Biden. We say he pulls from her. We say Biden's entry lowers Bernie's winning threshhold. We say a Biden entry is the miracle that makes Bernie's presidency closer to a reality. Hillary's support is falling for a reason. Bernie's rises for a reason. It is only wishful thinking by some that Biden would pull from the revolution. He gives the battle-worn establishment voters a palatable option.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I accept that point, but the action of entering now against a colleague runs in diametric opposition to established mores of status quo party politics. Biden is glove-slapping her.

I see no verifiable reason to project that kind of "diss Hillary" motivation onto Biden. From everything I've seen, they have a cordial relationship. Is it at all possible that your perception of this event (Biden's entry) is at all colored by your dislike of Hillary?

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

It is only wishful thinking by some that Biden would pull from the revolution. He gives the battle-worn establishment voters a palatable option.

The "wishful thinking" is on the part of the naive people who think "sea change" is occurring in this country. Probably the same people who were touting sea change during the "Occupy" fiasco.

There is no sea change going on here...and the next election will show that loudly and clearly.

Incumbents will be elected almost universally. And the presidency will go to a career politician...not to someone like Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump.

Actually, I am a bit sorry that is the case. I'd love for someone with Bernie Sanders balls to prevail.

But the chances of that happening is next to nothing.

I must say that I enjoy hearing you, Lash, talk about "wishful thinking" in others in such a disparaging tone.

You take the cake!

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@ossobuco,

I see the unions heading back to Biden, who's been their guy for ages. If he manages to pull enough primary votes to dump Clinton, then the Democrats are going to have rethink an entire plan. Hopefully they've got it in them.

There is a subset of Sanders supporters who are not Democrats - will they swing back to the Republican party or simply not vote if Sanders is out? not voting is obviously the better of those two options (from the perspective of a supporter of the Democratic party).

There is a series of anecdotal reports of traditional Republican voters who have decided they're independent now. Who will they vote for? Can the Democrats figure out a way to get those new independents to vote centrist vs right?

With another possible senior candidate, what are Democrats doing to develop younger candidates who will be appealing 4 years down the line?

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

This is the thinking among Bernie supporters re Biden's possible entry: It is good for Bernie.

Bernie's name recog is growing (especially with Time cover and a great night on Colbert) but it would be much easier if his % threshhold was 30% rather than 50%. Biden's entry gives us that.

Some may think Biden takes from Bernie. We believe strongly that that is incorrect. Bernie is bringing people in to the process who'd left. Bernies are BERNIES. They ain't going NOWHERE.

Hillary's voters, however, may be much more receptive to Biden. We say he pulls from her. We say Biden's entry lowers Bernie's winning threshhold. We say a Biden entry is the miracle that makes Bernie's presidency closer to a reality. Hillary's support is falling for a reason. Bernie's rises for a reason. It is only wishful thinking by some that Biden would pull from the revolution. He gives the battle-worn establishment voters a palatable option.

Lash, all due respect, and I understand you are active on Bernie's behalf, but you gotta know that
you can't possibly assume to speak for every single person that is now following Bernie - don't you? I mean, you're going "We" this and "we" that, as if you've been appointed spokesperson for the Bernie campaign A2K-Branch.

I think that some people in ALL camps have open minds - just as I do - and can be swayed. Maybe the Bernie contingent is more monolithic than most, but no one really knows what the electorate's options will be come August-November '16. And everyone isn't going to vote Independent or stay home if Hillary is the representative of the Dems, as you've said you would.

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@snood,

In this case, my opinion of Hillary doesn't enter in at all.

The only time I recall this happening was when Kennedy hated Carter's presidency to the degree that he entered against a sitting president. It was - and was recognised as - a statement from Kennedy about Carter. An open insult.

I'm surprised that anyone wouldn't recognise it as such.

Of course, Joe won't say it - but his action speaks loudly enough.

Even though HRC isn't Veep or pres - she was the annointed darling of the DNC. The Dem establishment candidate. Any other Dem establishment candidate opposing her is making a big statement.

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@snood,

Interesting. If Bernie voters are Bernie voters, not Democrats*, then it might be best to somehow cut them loose.

Democrats/Republicans/Bernie/Independent. It would certainly be interesting to watch that kind of campaign.

(*anecdotally, not what I'm seeing)

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@Frank Apisa,

I'm coming for your cake, Mr Wrong Pants.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

In this case, my opinion of Hillary doesn't enter in at all.

The only time I recall this happening was when Kennedy hated Carter's presidency to the degree that he entered against a sitting president. It was - and was recognised as - a statement from Kennedy about Carter. An open insult.

I'm surprised that anyone wouldn't recognise it as such.

Of course, Joe won't say it - but his action speaks loudly enough.

Even though HRC isn't Veep or pres - she was the annointed darling of the DNC. The Dem establishment candidate. Any other Dem establishment candidate opposing her is making a big statement.

OK. That's one way of looking at it.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

I'm coming for your cake, Mr Wrong Pants.

Sure!

If you are coming...it has nothing to do with my cake or my pants.

I have standards.

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@snood,

When I say "we," I am speaking for the many, many Bernie supporters I work with and talk to in addition to the campaign information I receive. There is a "we," and this is what we think.

Of course, you're correct that none of us know what will happen. I'm only sharing what I hear from my people.

If Joe were to beat Bernie in the primaries, I'd vote for him. I just don't think it will happen.

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@Lash,

So lemme just make sure I get this straight in my poor dilapidated head...

So, you're not discounting ANY positive motivation on Biden's part for entering, right - You're just saying that the MAIN thing animating this decision to run for the POTUS is to put Hillary in her place?

See, because I could grant that it may be some secondary thing going on, that "I'm not obligated to support Hillary" might be happening also, but I just can't wrap my head around it if you think that it's CENTRAL to why Biden would do this. I think it is saying that Biden is a small petty and vindictive man, and not the basically honorable, basically decent public servant I take him for.

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@snood,

I don't know how you arrived at that conclusion. I never thought Biden would run just to put someone in their place.

He just had to overcome great hurdles to decide to oppose her. I can't be the only one who sees that. The DNC, the party faithful on the street and in DC, donors: Either he is a radical maverick who has burned a lot of bridges or the afore mentioned Dem establishment has said "have at her."

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@Lash,

It might have had something to do with that "glove-handed her" thing you said. Traditionally that references someone forcefully challenging someone, and dissing them by slapping their face in public.

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@ehBeth,

Good question, of course, re who is out there and not getting into it at this point.

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@snood,

It was meant to signify a duel.

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Biden's run would take who's money and supporters? (grin) as I said... twas destined for Hillary.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/20150918_Reuters_Report_KCN0RI25F_Democratic_donors_urge_Biden_to_challenge_Clinton_in_U_S__2016_race.html

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@Lash,

Yes, please lets have a Sanders/Trump match-up.

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This is the view as I see it.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/biden-takes-his-pre-campaign-to-clintons-turf-213482

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The Case For Biden

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