The Case For Biden

I strongly suspect that Biden is being urged to run by Democrats who are concerned that Hillary's campaign may crater and who also don't believe Sanders could prevail in the National election. Who and how many they are I don't claim to know. However, I believe that Labor Unions are among them, as ebeth suggested above. This is also related to Frank's expressed concerns about Bernie's campaign. These folks face a difficult choice in that visibly endorsing Biden may hasten Hillary's fall, depriving her of an opportunity to recover, while waiting too long may injure the development of a Biden alternative.

As others here have suggested, Biden appears to be doing everything he can to advance his candidacy short of actually announcing it. Time is the difficult variable here. Its over 13 months 'till the national election - a long time for established campaigns such as Hillary's, with ample time for recovery (for those who believe or hope it is possible), but a short time for alternative campaigns that haven't yet started or been funded.

Meanwhile Bernie Sanders continues his apparent ascent. To what extent is this a new found interest in his tired, old (and discredited by history) economic views, and to what extent is it a search for "anything but Hillary' among Democrats? Both are likely components, but their relative magnitudes are a mystery to me.

Do you recall such an intriguing, hard-to-call election cycle?

No I don't. We've had close elections before (Kennedy won by the narrowest of margins and Cook County IL (Chicago) was critical to it), however, I can't recall one in which the overlay of competing issues and public concerns and interests was so complex and dicfficult to interpret as now. I have some opinions about what is happening but I don't have a lot of confidence in them - if that makes sense.

One of them is that public confidence in the good intentions and competence of government is very low now, and that has discredited the centrist coalitions among the parties that have dominated our politics for several decades. A result is a rise in the extreme (an overused word) elements of both parties -- Tea Party among Republiocans and Progressives among Democrats. People are looking for simple solutions to complex issues and perceived external threats - solutions that don't require them to address their own behaviors and their own contribution to the needed solution. Historically these can be dangerous times -- such situations generally preceeded the rise of authoritarian states of the right and the left, though some were resolved without such calamities.

I may have said it before, I have no doubt of Biden's good intentions. Same for Sanders, but they are way to liberal for me.

Do you say 'too liberal' because you believe their views preclude the eventuality of them becoming POTUS, or because they actually hold some views that are too far left for you? If the latter, which views are those?

Good question. One that affects most of us. Complex too. Both Biden and Sanders are indeed to the left of Hillary, and many feel are therefore less electable, so both elements are possible motivators for such a call - and both are legitimate.

In ordinary times I think most observers would consider Biden to be a very weak candidate, Certainly that was the judgment of previous campaigns. These may not be ordinary times.

As to the first, no, I think it makes them supremely electable. Who doesn't want a free lunch. TANSTAAFL. Somebody pays. Your free lunch is paid for from savings, current earnings, or borrowing. Government earnings are called taxes. I am really afraid of the consequences of fewer and fewer people supporting more and more of the rest of us. I suppose the idea is that we'll be well educated and perfectly healthy, which would move all of us into the tax paying class. I don't happen to believe that human nature runs in that direction.

Here is my dilemma, in this election season. I have never been what you'd call a pragmatist, generally speaking. A pragmatist does what is practical and sensible; he does the things that will get his goals accomplished notwithstanding the whims and desires that arise out of his emotions.

I voted for Obama with the best thinking I could muster at the time (both times), but my heart and emotions were involved - big time. What hopes and dreams I attached to his presidency; which ones he fulfilled and which have gone unanswered for - is a subject for another discussion.

My point here is that I am far from unmoved by all the Bernie Sanders talk of revolution and changing the system. I truly understand the deep longing and fury that motivates his followers to push and work and persuade so hard. I really get that.

We loyal Democratic voters are tired! We're tired of the same old corrupt, bought and sold out politics. We're tired of the 1 percenters having everything and the rest getting crumbs. We're tired of stupid wars and stupid policies on education, veterans, energy, and building infrastructure. We want change - revolution - and we want it yesterday. But... well here's how Jeff Faux puts it in a blog in Huffpo:

"...Bernie Sanders' candidacy has created a moment of truth for Democratic voters, testing how serious they are about changing the country's direction. We cannot be certain, of course, that even a President Bernie Sanders could loosen Big Money's stranglehold on our democracy. But we can be certain that neither of his rivals would even try..."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-faux/bernie-sanders-a-moment-o_b_8163092.html

So that's where we are. I understand the stubbornness with which Frank Apisa holds the line of "this is who is electable". I also understand the maddening restlessness that moves Bernie supporters like Lash.

That dilemma - That's why I haven't gotten on any bandwagon. That's why I'm still keeping my mind and eyes open. I'm hoping the choice gets easier (or at least clearer) as the time gets closer.

In spite of being nearly polar opposites so far as politics go, that's about where I'm at, at this moment.

There's no rush. People have until the moment they pull that lever.

Do you give credence to Bernie's assertions that the billionaires who zero out taxes or use tax shelters off-coast - when forced to pay taxes along with corporations that have also skated on taxes - will add substantially to our coffers when they are forced to pay like the rest of us?

In the US right now, there IS such a think as a free lunch - and the rich are getting it - on us.

I thought about engaging Roger on that point he was making about freeloaders on the government tit. It just seems that those already predisposed to blame the poor will do so even faced with raw numbers showing that corporate welfare dwarfs those "government goodies" conservatives are so upset that the poor and working poor get. Glad you did bring it up though.

Just what constitutes corporate welfare? Please provide us some of the "raw numbers" to which you referred which you claim "dwarf" medicaid, foodstamps, explodiong social security disability payments and other forms of welfare.

l'll readily agree that ethanol subsidies to corn producers and government grantd to Solara and other like failed "clean energy" producers are a form of corporate welfare, and are significant by any measure. Same goes to the 1/2 billion per year that goes to Planned parenthood. But these payments have zero net impact on iomproved economic activity but are favored by other promoters of big, intrusive government . Moreover I believe that Bernie Sanders likes them all.

Sources: Joe Biden Has Wife's Support for White House Bid

Source: NBC News by CHUCK TODD and ALEXANDRA JAFFE 1hr ago

Contrary to reports suggesting Vice President Joe Biden's wife remains an obstacle to his potential presidential run, sources tell NBC News that Jill Biden is fully behind him for another bid. Jill Biden, sources tell NBC's Chuck Todd, is 100 percent on-board with a presidential run, despite reports indicating her hesitation is part of what's keeping Biden from jumping into the race.

And that looks more likely by the day, as sources have indicated Biden's been meeting with Democratic leaders during his travels around the nation over the past week to tell them he wants to do it and thinks there's room for him to make a credible bid if he does. The key question that's still weighing on his mind as he decides whether to make another go of it: Does he have the emotional energy to give it his all, sources say.

But Biden knows that if he has any hopes of winning the nomination, he's better off deciding whether to run by Oct. 1 than waiting until the drop-dead deadline of Nov. 5, the day before the first Democratic primary filing deadline, in Alabama.

Deciding within the next three weeks would give him a slot in the first Democratic primary debate, on Oct. 13 in Las Vegas.

Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/sources-joe-biden-has-wifes-support-wh-bid-n430531

I doubt the recent trickle of "leaks" on this matter is accidental. This suggests that a Biden candidacy will become a steadily increasing prospect over the next few weeks and an announcement from him may well occur as Bobsal suggests above. Now I wonder what Hillary will do then. She may well stay in the competition to see what unfolds. Could all this be as much an effort to stop Sanders and/or heat up the Democrat campaign? It certainly wasn't in the cards a few months ago.

I don’t think Joe Biden is going to run…and his hesitancy right now will be used against him big-time if he eventually gets into the race.

I think Hillary will be the Dem candidate.

I love Bernie Sanders…and I cannot express how much I lament the fact that this country is not ready to elect a guy espousing the things he is advocating.

But I am a pragmatist…and I will not back Sanders at this time because I see his name oN the ticket as a kiss of death for the Dems.

Above all…my personal advocacy is dominated by a revulsion at the thought of a Republican being able to replace the Justices of the SCOTUS during the next 4 to 8 years. The damage they will do to existing safety net programs is not nearly as much a concern for me.

All I can do is to implore people who see the danger of a Republican victory…to be careful of wanting something so far from reach right now as are the dreams of Bernie Sanders. (He will never get any of that stuff through the congress in any case.)

Hillary…although not nearly as far left as I want to see the next president…is most assuredly A MUCH GREATER BET than any of those deluded people running for the Republican nomination.

THINK, folks!!!

Well, which billionaires zero out taxes, and how does it happen? I'm aware that capital gains and dividend income receive favorable tax treatment, but it's nowhere like zero. Those and other exceptional items are part of the tax code, supposedly to influence behavior. Do you not want that? Depends on the specific case, doesn't it.

Off shore tax shelters and investments? Income taxes are due when the income is repatriated, and that is on income after local taxes. Do you know of any countries other than the US that taxes foreign income at all?

PS: I file a 1040 every year. I've only paid taxes in one year out of the past seven. Do I look like a billionaire to you?

Now, there you go again, George. Trying to use specific examples instead of broad statements about corporate welfare. . . .

Canada

Really? Thank you.

Is it taxed when earned or when repatriated?