Dear Israel,

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

It is alleged by a historian that Likud never wanted a deal, they want extermination.

There has never been any indication that Likud wants extermination.

And Mr. Netanyahu just made two good-faith attempts at negotiation in the past few years.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

That's interesting Oralloy, the offer of peace you are referring to from Camp David was not a very good offer for the Palestinians. The resulting Palestinian state would have been riddled with Israeli settlements that would have made a viable state impossible, and Israel would have remained in control of water rights and airspace.

There was no offer to return to the 1967 borders. It may have been a "return to 1967 border except for these 69 settlements plus and roads and infrastructure we need to support them and except for East Jerusalem and water rights and the airspace". But, with so many exceptions the "1967 borders" aren't really the 1967 borders.

This was more of a demand of capitulation on the part of the Palestinians than a negotiation. The Palestinian state that Israel was offering wasn't even contiguous.

That makes the Camp David proposal sound worse than it was, but no matter. Camp David was just an interim proposal.

At Taba, Israel offered the Palestinians all of the Gaza Strip, 95% of the West Bank in one contiguous block, and East Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital.

Ariel Sharon's unilateral withdrawal would not have been nearly so generous, but the Palestinians still would have been able to have a functioning state.

Ehud Olmert's offer to the Palestinians was just as generous as Ehud Barak's.

Mr. Netanyahu's recent offer was likely also just as generous.

0 Replies

Israel needs defensible borders. Keep that in mind.

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Israel needs defensible borders. Keep that in mind.

When the Europeans cause the Palestinian state to come into existence by recognizing it, a reasonable Israeli move will be to finish building the Security Fence, including around Jerusalem and in the other areas where they have so far been pressured into not completing it, declare the Security Fence to be their official border, and annex all land west of the Fence. Maybe also a good time to start construction in the E-1 Area, just to cement control over everything west of the Security Fence.

East of the Fence, Israel can redouble their forces in Area C and seize back control over Area B. This will leave the Palestinians only with Area A to form their state with, and will give Israel a good strategic position to control any Palestinian aggression coming out of Area A.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Ethnic cleansing sounds like a nice easy idea ... but be carefu. Given that Israel is built on the idea that ethnic cleansing should never again be allowed, this idea is a little uncomfortable.

The fact that both the United States and Israel claim to be modern democracies built on human rights... this solution might not be as simple as you think it is.

The ethnic cleansing solution will have to have broad popular support in both the United States and Israel. I don't think this is going to happen.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

None of my listed suggestions amount to ethnic cleansing. The Palestinians are already in Area A. If they stay right where they already are, there is no ethnic cleansing.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Ethnic cleansing

Oralloy does not mention ethnic cleansing. Do not put words in his mouth.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

http://www.juancole.com/images-ext/2011/05/what-lies-behind-netanyahus-bluster-on-1967-borders.gif

How do you squish all of these people into this "area A" without ethnic cleansing?

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

How do you squish all of these people into this "area A" without ethnic cleansing?

That is loaded question.

1 Reply

@coldjoint,

It's a fair question. Oralloy's modest proposal requires the removal of people, based on their ethnicity, from land that Israel wants. This is the definition of ethnic cleansing.

Oralloy is talking about some "area A" where millions of people could be put and then fenced in...

I posted a map. I am honestly curious about where this "area A" would be.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

How do you squish all of these people into this "area A" without ethnic cleansing?

They are already there. I'm not proposing to move anyone. I'm just suggesting that they be confined where they already are.

On that map, by the way, the orange-brown sections represent both Area A and Area B. The grey parts of the West Bank represent Area C.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

It's a fair question. Oralloy's modest proposal requires the removal of people, based on their ethnicity, from land that Israel wants. This is the definition of ethnic cleansing.

I'm not proposing moving anyone, only confining them where they already are.

maxdancona wrote:

I posted a map. I am honestly curious about where this "area A" would be.

Within the orange-brown areas. If you add Area B to Area A, you get the orange-brown areas on that map.

1 Reply

In general (it is probably possible to come up with exceptions):

Area A = Where Palestinians live.

Area B = Where Palestinians grow crops.

Area C = Settler zone.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

Confining people is not a solution that is acceptable to any modern democracy. These are human beings... in spite of your desire to paint them as sub-human murderous thugs, in fact most of them are families who want to live and work and raise their children. These people need freedom.

The point here is that without a real peace effort, there is no simple answer for Israel (or for anyone else). Israel is an occupying power with responsibility for the lives of 4 million human beings it now rules.

It can't just wash its hands and wish these people away.

3 Replies

@maxdancona,

No? They can start a war every few mounts and kill as many as they can until the rest of the world wakes up and demands that they cease murdering people just as they have been doing since 1967. In 20 years or so their wont be any pals. in the west bank.

2 Replies

@RABEL222,

Is that why the Palestinian population has grown rapidly ? Rolling Eyes

0 Replies

@RABEL222,

Quote:

They can start a war every

No, you don't hate Jews. Who started the war in 1948 and 1967? Israel just always whips the **** out of them.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Confining people is not a solution that is acceptable to any modern democracy.

Palestinians don't want a democracy, they want Sharia.

2 Replies

@coldjoint,

Quote:

Palestinians don't want a democracy, they want Sharia.

And better rockets...dont forget they want better rockets so they can kill Jews...but not the military, because they whop their arse every time...no, just civilians who bleed waiting for an ambulance . Easy kill zone firing into a populated area .

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Confining people is not a solution that is acceptable to any modern democracy. These are human beings... in spite of your desire to paint them as sub-human murderous thugs, in fact most of them are families who want to live and work and raise their children. These people need freedom.

The point here is that without a real peace effort, there is no simple answer for Israel (or for anyone else). Israel is an occupying power with responsibility for the lives of 4 million human beings it now rules.

It can't just wash its hands and wish these people away.

I propose that the world step back and give the Israeli people a break, then try a brand new peace process, this time treating the Israelis fairly and not bombarding them with hateful lies all the time.

If the world wants to just keep bombarding Israel with hateful lies and forcing a Palestinian state on them outside the bounds of a peace process, Israel will do what they have to in order to protect themselves from the threat.

2 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know