27
   

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS....NOW!

 
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 04:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
let's start with the fact that no 2 year old has ever killed anyone with a car yet, MKay?


True but the reason we are hearing about this is that it does not normally happen either and in my own history I had, as a very very young child, reach out and move my family car transmission lever to low gear when the car was traveling at 60 MPH plus on the PA Turnpike

My father could had lost control of the car at that point and we could indeed had ended up all dead.
contrex
 
  5  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 05:02 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
A person capable of reason would adjust their argument accordingly. Oralboy doesn't, he just repeats himself, or calls people liars.

That's what trolls do. That's all they do.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 05:37 am
@contrex,

izzythepush wrote:
A person capable of reason would adjust their argument accordingly. Oralboy doesn't, he just repeats himself, or calls people liars.

Izzytheretard likes to falsely accuse his betters of his own stupidity. Laughing


contrex wrote:
That's what trolls do. That's all they do.

No. What you trolls do is say horrendous things in the hope of provoking a reaction from people.

(I say "you" trolls because of your own past confession that you engage in such behavior.)
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 07:16 am
@oralloy,
That's your other trick, "No I'm not you are." Most of us left that behind in the playground. That, and calling people liars or trash is the full extent of your very limited vocabulary.

Go back to your master, bow, scrape, touch your forelock, and ask him very nicely for some more words to use.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 07:27 am
@izzythepush,
Heavy on the bigot and double on the moron.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 08:19 am
http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/1192cbCOMIC-open-carry-patriots.jpg

A tip o' the hat to blueveinedthrobber.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 04:33 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

... anyone stupid enough to let a 2 year old near a gun deserves to be shot.


The woman in question was a well educated chemical engineer and scientist, who happened to have a very bright child, who knew how to unzip the purse, where the gun was located.

What's extremely sad about this situation is the fact that this young, intelligent woman was forced to carry a concealed gun ( for which she had a permit ) for her protection, in the first place.

If there's blame to be placed on anyone, then it has to be on the individual(s) who've either abused this bright, young scientist ( physically/mentally) or who have demonstrated an inclination to do so, thereby forcing her to arm and protect herself.
izzythepush
 
  6  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 04:40 pm
@Miller,
Our "well educated chemical engineers and scientists" don't need to carry guns with them when they go to the supermarket. Just because someone's well educated doesn't mean they're not an idiot.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  5  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 04:40 pm
@Miller,
Quote:
If there's blame to be placed on anyone, then it has to be on the individual(s) who've either abused this bright, young scientist ( physically/mentally) or who have demonstrated an inclination to do so, thereby forcing her to arm and protect herself.
Whenever you find yourself employing your imagination in order to believe that someone is not responsible for something that happened you should know that you are in trouble.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 05:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
The city of Harrisburg, among bunch of other Pa cities hve pssed a regional ordinance (act 192) which is a bundle of gun restrictions to be enforced within the city. These individual laws are.
1 Lost or stolen guns must be reported to police

2 Minors may not possess hand guns

3 No discharging of guns in the city

4 If Harrisburg is under a state of emergency, pawn shops and gun shops must remove any gun displays from open view.

A local attorney is planning to sue Harrisburg (nd several other towns that passé the same law) . The NRA is a bit silent on this suit.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 06:26 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
The NRA is a bit silent on this suit.

Lawsuits are not really the NRA's strong point. The NRA represents the moderate wing of the gun rights movement when it comes to domination of the US House of Representatives. For lawsuits you want the SAF.

Also might be good to wait a few years until a couple Liberal justices retire and Jeb Bush picks their replacements. Once the Supreme Court takes a hard turn to the right, it will be a lot easier to strike down unconstitutional gun laws.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 06:29 pm
@Miller,
Miller wrote:
What's extremely sad about this situation is the fact that this young, intelligent woman was forced to carry a concealed gun (for which she had a permit) for her protection, in the first place.
If there's blame to be placed on anyone, then it has to be on the individual(s) who've either abused this bright, young scientist (physically/mentally) or who have demonstrated an inclination to do so, thereby forcing her to arm and protect herself.

Is there any evidence of such abuse? Sometimes free people choose to carry guns simply because they feel like doing it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 07:19 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
Once the Supreme Court takes a hard turn to the right, it will be a lot easier to strike down unconstitutional gun laws.


As I said, this would be generational.
So you feel that those 4 Harrisburg ordinances somehow "infringe" on your second amendment rightS?

A bit ad extremum in our interpretation of this amendment aren't we?
engineer
 
  8  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 08:38 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

I disagree that freedom is self destructive.

I disagree that reasonable restrictions on gun ownership is an affront to freedom. We have freedom of the press, but that doesn't mean you can print anything you want. We have libel and secrecy laws. We have freedom of religion but if you believe that your religion allows you to have multiple wives or abuse children or pray for sick people instead of seeking medical attention, you are going to discover that there are some common sense restrictions on your freedom to worship. Are you protesting the impingement on your freedom when state after state erects barriers to voting? It seems like access to voting is right at the heart of your freedom but the courts have no problem allowing restrictions there.

The reality is there are plenty of free countries that have not enshrined freedom to carry as part of their national identities. I don't object to gun ownership, but I favor reasonable restrictions that would prevent accidental deaths and I fully believe you are 100% responsible for your gun. I favor negligent homicide charges if your gun kills someone accidentally. Rights come with responsibilities.
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 08:53 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
As I said, this would be generational.

Americans of the future will value their freedom as much as Americans of today do. There will never be any repeal of America's freedom.


farmerman wrote:
So you feel that those 4 Harrisburg ordinances somehow "infringe" on your second amendment rightS?

I am undecided. I would like to hear the position of the people suing to overturn the law before I come to any conclusions.


farmerman wrote:
A bit ad extremum in our interpretation of this amendment aren't we?

Americans have the right to carry guns when we go about in public. We're the last free nation on the planet.
farmerman
 
  4  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 09:02 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:

I am undecided. I would like to hear the position of the people suing to overturn the law before I come to any conclusions

The guy suing is a "churner" who is seeking fees from damage claims. Hes an unprincipled asshole.

How about what you think? surely you don't drink the kool aid every day?

oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 09:18 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
I disagree that reasonable restrictions on gun ownership is an affront to freedom.

"Reasonable restrictions" is a vague term that could refer to almost anything.

Thus far, every time I've seen the term clarified, it has turned out that the term was being used as a stand-in for something that is blatantly unconstitutional and very much an affront to freedom.


engineer wrote:
We have freedom of the press, but that doesn't mean you can print anything you want. We have libel and secrecy laws. We have freedom of religion but if you believe that your religion allows you to have multiple wives or abuse children or pray for sick people instead of seeking medical attention, you are going to discover that there are some common sense restrictions on your freedom to worship.

True, but that does not make it all right to pass laws that blatantly violate our civil rights.


engineer wrote:
Are you protesting the impingement on your freedom when state after state erects barriers to voting? It seems like access to voting is right at the heart of your freedom but the courts have no problem allowing restrictions there.

No state is erecting barriers to voting. They are erecting barriers to cheating.


engineer wrote:
The reality is there are plenty of free countries that have not enshrined freedom to carry as part of their national identities.

If they do not allow their citizens to carry guns when they go about in public, their citizens are not free.


engineer wrote:
I don't object to gun ownership, but I favor reasonable restrictions that would prevent accidental deaths

There's that vague term "reasonable restrictions" again.

As noted above, the term is almost always a stand-in for something that is blatantly unconstitutional.


engineer wrote:
and I fully believe you are 100% responsible for your gun.

What if you have your guns in a safe, but thieves break in with welding equipment and cut your safe open (the thieves of course knew about your safe because the local gun control proponents told everyone what guns you have). Are you responsible for what those thieves do with your guns?


engineer wrote:
I favor negligent homicide charges if your gun kills someone accidentally.

Even if the circumstances of the accident do not involve any negligence?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 09:30 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
How about what you think? surely you don't drink the kool aid every day?

I'm immune to Kool Aid.

I've not yet formed an opinion on the case. If I happen to form an opinion on it, I'll report back with details.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 09:31 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:
Are you protesting the impingement on your freedom when state after state erects barriers to voting? It seems like access to voting is right at the heart of your freedom but the courts have no problem allowing restrictions there.

No state is erecting barriers to voting. They are erecting barriers to cheating.

The evidence is extensive showing the reason all these laws are being promoted is to dissuade minority and low income voting and you say you are immune to the Kool Aid. If you are really a proponent for freedom, you would find this insanely offensive. Why isn't that the case?
oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:
The reality is there are plenty of free countries that have not enshrined freedom to carry as part of their national identities.

If they do not allow their citizens to carry guns when they go about in public, their citizens are not free.

And yet their citizens vociferously disagree with you. Why don't they admire your gun freedom? Perhaps because their freedom to walk down the street without getting shot means more to them?

oralloy wrote:

engineer wrote:
I favor negligent homicide charges if your gun kills someone accidentally.

Even if the circumstances of the accident do not involve any negligence?

No, although I have trouble imagining how an accidental discharge does not involve negligence. If a child get a loaded gun and kills someone I think a jury will have to decide if there was negligence or not. If the jury says not guilty, I'd defer to those who heard the facts.
bobsal u1553115
 
  6  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2015 10:06 pm
Man’s worst enemy: 6 negligent gun owners who were shot by their own dogs
Harmon Leon, AlterNet
02 Jan 2015 at 00:41 ET
Testicle-biting-Polish-police-dog-via-AFP
Don't miss stories. Follow Raw Story!
Follow @rawstory

http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/dogwithgun.jpg

Guns don’t kill people; dogs with guns kill people—or so it would seem from the recent rash of gun owners who have been accidentally shot by their dogs.

This trend isn’t part of a canine uprising; it’s mostly due to gun-toting Americans who have neglected the simple rules of weapon safety. Usually these stories end up in the “Weird” or “Funny” sections of news sites with headlines like “Doggone,” “Bad Dog,” etc. After all, it’s “funny” when a dog accidentally shoots its owner. (Less funny if it accidentally shoots a child.) Usually, some “humorous” photo accompanies the story, such as this:

The canine shootings in these cases are ruled accidental, with no responsibility placed on the owner. These stories are simply funny asides, the equivalent of closing the newscast with the water-skiing squirrel, except the story involves people being shot and often permanently maimed due to irresponsible behavior and neglecting gun safety. This begs the question: is it natural selection when a dog accidentally shoots an owner who leaves a weapon lying around with the safety off?

Here are six recent examples of dog-on-human shootings.

1. Dog Steps on Rifle and Shoots Wyoming Man

Earlier this month, Richard Fipps of Wyoming was accidentally shot by his dog when his lovable pooch stepped on his .300 Winchester Magnum. According to the local sheriff, Fipps and two other men were in a remote area trying to move his truck, which was stuck. Fipps was standing beside his vehicle when he told his dog to move from the front to the back seat. The dog jumped onto Fipp’s rifle, which was sitting in the backseat with the safety off. The round struck Fipps in the left arm, traveled past his back and clipped his right sleeve. Fipps was treated in a hospital in Billings, Montana and may lose his arm.

Doggone! [Insert laughter here.]

IFrame

2. Dog Accidentally Shoots Owner With a 9mm Pistol

In February 2013, a Florida man was shot when his dog kicked a gun that was lying on the floor of his truck. The weapon went off and a bullet entered the man’s leg.

The victim, 35-year-old Gregory Dale Lanier, thought the gun in his pickup truck was not loaded. According to investigators, Lanier was driving on State Road 17 North when his dog kicked his pistol, causing it to fire. The man heard a boom, saw smoke, “and felt a burning in his leg.”

In the police report, Lanier claims he was surprised the gun was loaded. He was also surprised to learn that the gun he had purchased was a 9mm semi-automatic weapon. (Yes, the man shot by his own dog didn’t even know what type of weapon he bought.)

According to law, Lanier’s gun should have been stowed in the glove compartment or a holster, instead of on the floor of his truck. But the local police ruled it an accidental shooting and took Lanier’s word he didn’t know the gun was loaded. I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised. In Florida, people always seem to get off for shooting incidents, no matter the cause.<

The dog was not charged with any crime. [Insert laughter here.]

IFrame

3. Dog Shoots Owner With His Shotgun After Jumping and Landing on the Trigger

Also in 2013, a Minnesota man was accidently shot by his dog while on a duck-hunting trip. Police say the dog jumped in the boat and landed on the hunter’s loaded shotgun, causing it to fire and hit the hunter in the leg. The hunter was taken to Cass Lake Indian Health Services, where he was treated for a gunshot wound and released. The incident was investigated by the sheriff’s office but no criminal charges were filed.

Looks like someone’s in the doghouse! [Insert laughter here.]

4. French Hunter Loses Hand After Being Shot by His Dog

Americans can take some small comfort in the fact that these kinds of incidents also happen overseas. In 2012, a 55-year-old Frenchman was hunting deer when one of his dogs “jumped on him to give him a cuddle,” at which point the dog accidentally depressed the trigger with his paw and shot the man. The hunter was flown to hospital in Bordeaux by air ambulance. The bullet shattered part of the man’s right hand and his hand was later amputated. He insisted it wasn’t the dog’s fault but his own, adding that he still thought his dog was “adorable.”

It just goes to show, don’t bite the hand that feeds you—especially if it’s been blown off by a shotgun! [Insert laughter here.]

IFrame

5. Dog Shoots Owner in the Buttocks

In the fall of 2011, two men were duck hunting on the Great Salt Lake in Utah. One of the hunters laid his 12-gauge shotgun across the bow of the boat and climbed out to retrieve decoys. While the man was in the water, his dog stepped on his shotgun, firing 27 pellets into the man’s buttocks from roughly 10 feet away. Authorities said the man suffered only minor injuries partly because he was wearing waders.

The deputy on the scene was quoted as saying, “The dog did something to make the gun discharge. I don’t know if the safety device was on.” The deputy concluded this about paw functionality: “It’s not impossible the dog could have taken it off safety.”

A dog’s bark may be worse than his bite, but his ability to shoot a gun trumps both of them. [Insert laughter here.]

IFrame

6. Bulldog Shoots Elderly Man

A Florida man was shot by his bulldog while on a deer-hunting trip in 2011. The shooting occurred while Billy E. Brown, 78, was driving down a bumpy road with his dog, Eli, and a hunting buddy. The gun, a high-powered Browning .308-caliber rifle, was between the two men. Eli was moving back and forth between the front and back seats of the extended cab and knocked the rifle toward Brown’s right leg. According to the police report, the mutt switched off the safety with his paw and pulled the trigger. (And that’s the story they’re sticking to.)

Brown was shot in the thigh, where the bullet struck the bone and also damaged the femoral artery, a major source of blood flow. He was rushed to St. Joseph’s Hospital in Tampa in critical condition.

Perhaps the shooting was in retaliation for some bad dog food. [Insert laughter here.]

IFrame
0 Replies
 
 

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