15 PHD level scientists say evolution is a bunch of bullshit

@FBM,

And you believe that it is rational, that hundreds of thousands of lines of the DNA code needed for life, wrote themselves in a warm pond? Is this what you are saying?

Have you ever entertained that since DNA is proven to be a code, that humanity should be able to both decipher and then write it? Thus removing God from the equation all together, and or changing God to just another being similar to us who visited the Earth. It's happening, DNA has been proved to be a chemical hard drive, that can store this very post, for a very long time.

3 Replies

@DNA Thumbs drive,

I said nothing of the kind. Your BS here is so feeble that you have to lean on straw man fallacies. Try responding to what i actually write, rather than just making up sh*t which you think you are prepared to argue against.

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@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

And you believe that it is rational, that hundreds of thousands of lines of the DNA code needed for life, wrote themselves in a warm pond? Is this what you are saying?

Yes, or a thermal vent on the ocean floor, or a comet, etc. There are several competing hypotheses, as I clearly mentioned just before, and which seems to be beyond your grasp. Given the chemical conditions of early Earth and an open system, which is what the Earth is, it's not only possible, but practically inevitable.

But what I'm actually saying is that it's a vastly better idea than anything you're proposing, ie, magic.

Quote:

Have you ever entertained that since DNA is proven to be a code, that humanity should be able to both decipher and then write it? Thus removing God from the equation all together, and or changing God to just another being similar to us who visited the Earth. It's happening, DNA has been proved to be a chemical hard drive, that can store this very post, for a very long time.

I can't imagine any good reason to entertain such twisted "logic," no.

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@DNA Thumbs drive,

Darwins "warm little pond..." statement was a summary line that was included in chapter 14 of each of the six editions that mostly LIMITED what he did not know at the time nd which, he felt, would be included by later research. This included the "warm little pond...". "the limitations of the geologic record..." "embryology..." nd what we now call cladistics "ND systematics of nomenclature" (Re; The argument about the over "50 species of British brambles"

I love your argument , it is well crafted and one needs to assume the burden of evidence regarding sustaining a naturalistic view.
I think that takes a focused discussion . (Im a fan of the fossil record and what it shows us in "ascension" as well as chaotic relationships with the environments of any prticulr epoch).
Glad to hve you on board, no matter what your worldview.

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

I 've heard that Darwin was deeply religious.
He did not deem his work to be in conflict with religion.

DArin really started out as a "CINO" pretty much. He had doubts early on ND WHEN HE WORKED WITH a noted geologist he sort of lost faith completely. His respect for the religious was deep and he worried about the relationships between he and his wife and kids.
Desmond nd Moores biography of Darwin goes fairly deeply into his beliefs of religion and afterlife etc.
Its a good read

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@DNA Thumbs drive,

Quote:

And you believe that it is rational, that hundreds of thousands of lines of the DNA code needed for life, wrote themselves in a warm pond? Is this what you are saying?

we can see the assembly, reassembly, and creation of new DNA occurring at all times.
Witness the recent studies of the Speciation by 3-400 year isolation of anadromous fish behind pre colonial dams on the Connecticut river. They've speciated and contain new reassembly and new lines of DNA (I believe there are 3 specific SNPs that have been identified).

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Quote:

Philae Detected Organic Molecules On Comet

November 18, 2014 | by Lisa Winter[/b]

http://www.iflscience.com/chemistry/philae-detected-organic-molecules-comet

Carbon is a start.

1 Reply

@FBM,

several years back Cassinni detected about 18 different "prebiotic moleculles" including several nucleotides within the spectra of TITAN.
Weve alo detected several nucleotides in deep space from star spectra.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

**** balls, man, I didn't know that. Got a link? Nvm, I can google.

1 Reply

@FBM,

Hres an abstract from the NCBI (Nat Center for Biotech Information)

Quote:

Astrobiology. 2012 Sep;12(9):809-17. doi: 10.1089/ast.2011.0623. Epub 2012 Aug 23.

Formation of amino acids and nucleotide bases in a Titan atmosphere simulation experiment.

Hörst SM1, Yelle RV, Buch A, Carrasco N, Cernogora G, Dutuit O, Quirico E, Sciamma-O'Brien E, Smith MA, Somogyi A, Szopa C, Thissen R, Vuitton V.

Author information

Abstract

The discovery of large (>100 u) molecules in Titan's upper atmosphere has heightened astrobiological interest in this unique satellite. In particular, complex organic aerosols produced in atmospheres containing C, N, O, and H, like that of Titan, could be a source of prebiotic molecules. In this work, aerosols produced in a Titan atmosphere simulation experiment with enhanced CO (N(2)/CH(4)/CO gas mixtures of 96.2%/2.0%/1.8% and 93.2%/5.0%/1.8%) were found to contain 18 molecules with molecular formulae that correspond to biological amino acids and nucleotide bases. Very high-resolution mass spectrometry of isotopically labeled samples confirmed that C(4)H(5)N(3)O, C(4)H(4)N(2)O(2), C(5)H(6)N(2)O(2), C(5)H(5)N(5), and C(6)H(9)N(3)O(2) are produced by chemistry in the simulation chamber. Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS) analyses of the non-isotopic samples confirmed the presence of cytosine (C(4)H(5)N(3)O), uracil (C(5)H(4)N(2)O(2)), thymine (C(5)H(6)N(2)O(2)), guanine (C(5)H(5)N(5)O), glycine (C(2)H(5)NO(2)), and alanine (C(3)H(7)NO(2)). Adenine (C(5)H(5)N(5)) was detected by GC-MS in isotopically labeled samples. The remaining prebiotic molecules were detected in unlabeled samples only and may have been affected by contamination in the chamber. These results demonstrate that prebiotic molecules can be formed by the high-energy chemistry similar to that which occurs in planetary upper atmospheres and therefore identifies a new source of prebiotic material, potentially increasing the range of planets where life could begin.

PMID: 22917035 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3444770 Free PMC Article

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Astrobiology. 2012 Sep;12(9):809-17. doi: 10.1089/ast.2011.0623. Epub 2012 Aug 23.

Formation of amino acids and nucleotide bases in a Titan atmosphere simulation experiment.

Hörst SM1, Yelle RV, Buch A, Carrasco N, Cernogora G, Dutuit O, Quirico E, Sciamma-O'Brien E, Smith MA, Somogyi A, Szopa C, Thissen R, Vuitton V.

Author information

Abstract

The discovery of large (>100 u) molecules in Titan's upper atmosphere has heightened astrobiological interest in this unique satellite. In particular, complex organic aerosols produced in atmospheres containing C, N, O, and H, like that of Titan, could be a source of prebiotic molecules. In this work, aerosols produced in a Titan atmosphere simulation experiment with enhanced CO (N(2)/CH(4)/CO gas mixtures of 96.2%/2.0%/1.8% and 93.2%/5.0%/1.8%) were found to contain 18 molecules with molecular formulae that correspond to biological amino acids and nucleotide bases. Very high-resolution mass spectrometry of isotopically labeled samples confirmed that C(4)H(5)N(3)O, C(4)H(4)N(2)O(2), C(5)H(6)N(2)O(2), C(5)H(5)N(5), and C(6)H(9)N(3)O(2) are produced by chemistry in the simulation chamber. Gas chromatography-mass spectrometry (GC-MS) analyses of the non-isotopic samples confirmed the presence of cytosine (C(4)H(5)N(3)O), uracil (C(5)H(4)N(2)O(2)), thymine (C(5)H(6)N(2)O(2)), guanine (C(5)H(5)N(5)O), glycine (C(2)H(5)NO(2)), and alanine (C(3)H(7)NO(2)). Adenine (C(5)H(5)N(5)) was detected by GC-MS in isotopically labeled samples. The remaining prebiotic molecules were detected in unlabeled samples only and may have been affected by contamination in the chamber. These results demonstrate that prebiotic molecules can be formed by the high-energy chemistry similar to that which occurs in planetary upper atmospheres and therefore identifies a new source of prebiotic material, potentially increasing the range of planets where life could begin.

PMID: 22917035 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID: PMC3444770 Free PMC Article

3 Replies

@farmerman,

I have a soft spot for uracil. People tend to overlook it, I think. Thymine is over-rated.*

*I'm just making that up. Kudos to DNA. Just don't forget RNA's role in things. I'm working on a 20-year distant memory of Microbiology class, so don't expect too much detail.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Ahhh, those were a site experiment result where the initil atnmospheric gases (already complex organics as cyanogen, C5 to C10 propanols, methylammoniated stuff, nd some non noble gases and other isotopes. What they did was to react the atmospheric mix in a cylinder using radio waves to replicate the suns energy at that distance. The final amino acids and nucleotides were the results after the experiment. (Sorta a moern Miller Urey experiment).
Heres the spectral abstract, you cn get the full article on line

Quote:

Voyager 1 took IR measurements of the atmosphere of Titan, and obtained an average of 346 spectra, mostly from the center of the disk. The compounds C4H2, HC3N, and C2N2 were detected in the atmosphere of Titan. The identification of two compounds containing nitrogen, in addition to HCN, provides further evidence for the abundance of free N2 on Titan. The organic compounds observed in the atmosphere of Titan are summarized in a table, which also indicates the approximate mole fraction for each compound identified previously. The observed compounds originate by reactions of methane and nitrogen radicals in a predominantly nitrogen atmosphere.

Cassini/Huygens came up with several waay more interesting compounds by using a bit more tech than the old "Veeger"

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@FBM,

Quote:

*I'm just making that up. Kudos to DNA. Just don't forget RNA's role in things. I'm working on a 20-year distant memory of Microbiology class, so don't expect too much detail.

RNA! The blue-collar workhorses of cell chemistry!

1 Reply

@rcleary171,

rcleary171 wrote:

Quote:
*I'm just making that up. Kudos to DNA. Just don't forget RNA's role in things. I'm working on a 20-year distant memory of Microbiology class, so don't expect too much detail.

RNA! The blue-collar workhorse of cell chemistry!

Although I'm white-collar now, I refuse to forget my blue-collar origins. Respect given where due, I say. Don't piss on uracil just because of its association with RNA. That would be akin to racism. Or molecularism. Or something or other.

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@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

And you believe that it is rational, that hundreds of thousands of lines of the DNA code needed for life, wrote themselves in a warm pond? Is this what you are saying?

DNA is an advanced molecule, it is NOT the theorized "first replicator" which formed in the "warm pond".

And you are correct that there is no demonstratable "first replicator" molecule around today, but that doesn't mean that abiogenesis can't hypothesize that a first replicator of some type existed.

One thing is for certain, abiogenesis will be predicated on an expectation that the processes involved were natural processes and not poofism. So it should come as no surprise that theories would be proposed which included the required precursors to evolution.

You seem to be tangled up in the false assumption that DNA was the First Replicator, or that a first replicator can't be hypothesized simply because they aren't around today (which isn't surprising because they have been out competed by a more advanced molecule: DNA).

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Yea right, Titan is full of prebiotic molecules.....

Could be true, if such a thing was even known to exist.

Can you name a prebiotic molecule?

PS. Why don't you watch 2010 a space fallacy again....

sheesh

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@rosborne979,

There is no first replicator, except in fantasy. Just being scientific here.

2 Replies

@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

There is no first replicator, except in fantasy. Just being scientific here.

It's a hypothesis. Do you know what a hypothesis is?

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

The lines on Mars were hypothesized to be canals, Einstein hypothesized in his grand theory of relativity that the Universe was static and constant. Billions of lines of DNA are however quite real, and needed for replication, thus DNA is no hypothesis.

3 Replies

@DNA Thumbs drive,

DNA Thumbs drive wrote:

There is no first replicator, except in fantasy. Just being scientific here.

Being scientific means presenting evidence for your claims. Where is your evidence that there is no first replicator? How could there be any replicators now if there wasn't a first one?

1 Reply

15 PHD level scientists say evolution is a bunch of bullshit

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