Potty-Mouthed Princesses Drop F-Bombs for Feminism by FCKH8.com

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Anyone who doesn't think that certain characteristics are male/female hasn't raised kids.

This is actually a very circular argument. You raised kids believing there was a difference - you don't think that would affect your kids' behaviour? (not to mention how society and your extended family views and treats gender)

Or did you believe there was no difference and raised them accordingly and they proved you wrong?

I'm not actually saying you're wrong - it's the logic I'm having a problem with.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

CalamityJane wrote:

On the contrary, Germlat, I encouraged it too! Our neighbor's girl was 6 years old and constantly applied nail polish and make-up. She looked like a mini grown up you see in these awful pageant shows and that's something I would not allow my daughter to do until she was way in her teens.

True story: When I was in 8th grade I was been bullied/ tortured by another girl. I came home crying and told dad...he was furious! He told me I needed to physically fight this girl (my mom was nearly absent and traveled for months at a time). He told me unless I did that, the girl wouldn't leave me alone. So, I mustered the courage(this was my first and last physical altercation) and slugged her! She never bothered me again. When mom heard she was mortified. Nobody ever bullied me again.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

Oh, really? That makes me happy, you know I tend to like writers/screenwriters/playwrights of whatever gender. I'm getting a kick out of my ex's new writing project. I still think it's a good passion.

0 Replies

@hingehead,

Actually you don't know how max raised his kids. For all you know he raised them trying to resist cultural norms and found it impossible or difficult.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

You probably saw the last woman on earth to tell her daughter to be "lady-like." Was she 65 years old?

That's ridiculous...I see it all the time...not with those words.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Maybe you should read the second last sentence of my post.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

Maybe you should have phrased your entire comment less aggressively.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Do you live in a retirement village?

1 Reply

@Germlat,

I'm delighted to read that. Gave the same advice to my boy when he was 6.

His mother was furious. She wanted to speak to the teacher who of course couldn't care less, this being the Education Nationale... Our son had already talked to the teacher to no effect.

Now, in the Childrenistan I remember (also known as Lord of the Flies country), whining to the teacher is downright treason and can lead to premature social death... So I explained to my kid a few kicks and weak points to give him confidence, and advised him to inflict real pain, to exact a price. This way even if you lose, you still win respect and the bully will leave you alone. (as far as I know from my childhood, you can bring this rule to the bank)

Of course I thought he would wait to be attacked before putting the advice into practice. But why wait? Next morning at recess, my boy walks toward the bully and asks: 'you want to fight?'

The other boy looked at him and said: 'Non.' And he never bothered him again.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

My dad was the nurturer in my family. He gave me medication when I was sick, advice when I needed it...took me to the lab as a child(probably the reason I came to love science ), gave me kisses before he went to work....so much for gender models.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Do you live in a retirement village?

No...my mom is in her almost mid-sixties and she doesn't either. She travels the world and speaks in large conferences....she's a tough bird.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Maybe you should have phrased your entire comment less aggressively.

That really is in the eye of the beholder. I'm pretty sure saying "I'm not saying you're wrong" is not the phrasing of an attack dog. Or someone feeling bad for commenting on a post they hadn't really read and trying distraction to cover up their embarrassment.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Quote:

My dad was the nurturer in my family. He gave me medication when I was sick, advice when I needed it...took me to the lab as a child(probably the reason I came to love science ), gave me kisses before he went to work....so much for gender models.

Agreed. But good for you that he picked up that role. He could have focused on his career like I gathered your mom did.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

No...he is a scientist and a very successful entrepreneur. He is very intelligent in both business and science. He was able to pick out great employees to run his businesses. My mom was incapable of nurturing, so he assumed the role. He worked all day but--never missed dinner with his children(not once!). I think he really derived pleasure from being a father. He also always took Sunday off. He hired lots of help to pick up where he couldn't . And structured a great deal of activities during the week to keep us busy: language lessons, musical instrument lessons, etc

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Wow... Lucky girl!

Quote:

I think he really derived pleasure from being a father

You got a point here, and an interesting one for this discussion: raising kids can be a bliss, a pure pleasure, one of the greatest possible pleasures attainable. At least to some people (including me). And I am convinced that there are many potentially good and happy fathers who are missing out on this bliss, and on the other hand many mothers who feel guilty because they don't particularly like that nurturing job but still are 'forced' to do it socially.

So shaking up gender roles can help people find a better fit between their personalities and their roles. Yet, someone in the couple has to do at least some of that nurturing, or the kids lose out. And therefore, a division of labour between parents is generally desirable, even though that division of labour may not follow the classic gender roles. So we can be equal but I think it is unrealistic to ask parents to be interchangeable and to assume identical roles in the family.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Wow... Lucky girl!

Quote:
I think he really derived pleasure from being a father

You got a point here, and an interesting one for this discussion: raising kids can be a bliss, a pure pleasure, one of the greatest possible pleasures attainable. At least to some people (including me). And I am convinced that there are many potentially good and happy fathers who are missing out on this bliss, and on the other hand many mothers who feel guilty because they don't particularly like that nurturing job but still are 'forced' to do it socially.

So shaking up gender roles can help people find a better fit between their personalities and their roles. Yet, someone in the couple has to do at least some of that nurturing, or the kids lose out. And therefore, a division of labour between parents is generally desirable, even though that division of
labour may not follow the classic gender roles. So we can be equal but I think it is unrealistic to ask parents to be interchangeable and to assume identical roles in the family.

I was very fortunate indeed. My adversity came later ...but-that's nor here nor there...and I succeeded ( probably due to the fact I received what I needed as a child). I think fathers can have an incredible impact on their children's lives. My dad called me sweet princess but also encouraged me to physically fight.... His main theme was that everyone woman had to have an education. I'm sure it's easier to share the role of caregiver/ nurturer in most families. I'm not so sure I missed out by my mother being nearly absent. If I missed something I guess I don't know what it is.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

Quote:

I think fathers can have an incredible impact on their children's lives.

People have talents, they have predispositions, they have strengths and weaknesses (it's glaringly obvious, I know...). When two people come together to do something like have and raise kids, they bring different skills to the project, and should not IMO try and provide the exact same input. Some can bring the dow better than others, and some can bring the love better than others too... A degree of specialisation and division of labour in the family can be beneficial, whether based on traditional gender roles or not.

Not saying that it's a good idea never to see your kids if you don't feel very good at raising them -- everybody can learn -- but lets not try and be interchangeable either.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I think fathers can have an incredible impact on their children's lives.

People have talents, they have predispositions, they have strengths and weaknesses (it's glaringly obvious, I know...). When two people come together to do something like have and raise kids, they bring different skills to the project, and should not IMO try and provide the exact same input. Some can bring the dow better than others, and some can bring the love better than others too... A degree of specialisation and division of labour in the family can be beneficial, whether based on traditional gender roles or not.

Not saying that it's a good idea never to see your kids if you don't feel very good at raising them -- everybody can learn -- but lets not try and be interchangeable either.

I guess my dad hired what he couldn't do. Emotionally , those services cannot be paid for. Still...I'm not sure what I missed out on. He gave me what I needed.

1 Reply

@Germlat,

I know what you missed: the ladylike part... ;-)

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

I know what you missed: the ladylike part... ;-)

I'm apparently not lacking in that respect...at least not initially ;-). But when I hear females talk about certain constraints, I feel glad to be free of them... Funny thing is I get selected as a leader at work and rewarded for my enthusiasm in bed...I'm good with "unladylike "

2 Replies

Potty-Mouthed Princesses Drop F-Bombs for Feminism by FCKH8.com

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