14
   

Fergusonj shooting, autopsy in, all shots from front

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:28 pm
@Baldimo,
was the cop "meting out justice" for a store robbery? Did the cop even have a reason to suspect the person in front of him upon whom he was about to use deadly force was that robber?



Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:31 pm
@farmerman,
Reports show that he was not responding to him as a robber, but as someone walking down the middle of the street. If Brown was just jay-walking as you like to think he was, then why did Brown feel it was necessary to attack the cop in his car and break his face?

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:39 pm
@farmerman,
It seems that respect for human life is leaving us. All deadly force decisions are final.
If it turns out that the cop was assaulted he probably panicked and fired execution style. For that he must face charges. He may be acquitted or he may not.
However,He must face the consequences of his decision as required by law. We cannot send a message to other cops that you can skate charges for executing a black kid . We cannot
preach to the world about our "respect" for human rights and have **** like this go down.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:43 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Reports show that he was not responding to him as a robber, but as someone walking down the middle of the street. If Brown was just jay-walking as you like to think he was, then why did Brown feel it was necessary to attack the cop in his car and break his face?
That's why the cop must stand charges in an open court investigation. I don't think the community at large (all sides) will trust ANY decision made by some police tribunal or IAD investigation.
Too much has passed by in the media and is welling up in public opinion.
I realize that you are only attempting to be super colorblind but I think that ship has sailed.
Baldimo
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:49 pm
@farmerman,
So it was ok for Brown to attack the cop and break his eye socket?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:53 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

I won't acknowledge it was excessive because we don't know if it was or not.


So you change the wording to make your comment seem less absurd.

I did NOT ask you to acknowledge that it was excessive...I asked you to acknowledge that it SEEMS excessive.

A cop stopped two young men essentially for jaywalking...and whatever occurred, one of the young men ended up with six bullets in him.

It does seem excessive.


Quote:
Hell it took a week to find out he had been involved in a robbery 10 minutes prior to the shooting. There are just now new reports that the officer suffered a broken eye socket after he was punched by Brown. Do we know this as true? Not yet we don't. If it is true then I don't think 6 bullets was excessive. To hit someone at least once and break their eye socket is not normal.


Sorry, Baldimo...I thought speaking with a sane human being.

Are you actually saying that if it is determined that the officer was punched by Brown...six bullets in him were probably not excessive????

C'mon!


0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 12:55 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

So it was ok for Brown to attack the cop and break his eye socket?


It was not okay. It was wrong, in fact...if that is what happened.

But to shoot him to death for doing so?

Six bullets into the guy by a trained, experienced police officer for a punch???
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:02 pm
@Baldimo,
youre begging the point of the consequences Baldimo. Frank has it spot on (OMIGOD -get me a priest!!).

A "busted eye socket " allows the cop to heal. Browns "busted eye socket" goes into his brain and out the other side.
Whatever happened to proportional punishment?
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:02 pm
@Frank Apisa,
If he was running at him to attack again, then the cop was indeed justified. From the damage the cop suffered it sounds like it took that many because it's hard to aim with a broken eye. I'm guessing you would have been ok with Brown attacking him again as long as he didn't shoot him?

If you are so close to cops as you claim, what do they have to say about this? Do they agree with you as the facts are known now.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:35 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Whatever happened to proportional punishment?

You know better than this. Self defense is not punishment.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:36 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
If it turns out that the cop was assaulted he probably panicked and fired execution style.

What sort of nonsense is "firing execution style"?

Police officers are trained to empty their clips into the center of the target's chest. That is almost certainly the sort of firing that the officer engaged in here.


farmerman wrote:
For that he must face charges. He may be acquitted or he may not.
However,He must face the consequences of his decision as required by law. We cannot send a message to other cops that you can skate charges for executing a black kid.

Nonsense like this is why if people ever have to defend themselves against a minority, their best bet is to ensure that all the witnesses are dead and then just slip away, letting the police chalk everything up to gang activity.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:39 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Nah mate, it was bloody good shooting..Smile
As a --ahem-- champion PC wargamer I string with Rabel on this and can tell you that you don't just put one into somebody and sit twiddling your thumbs waiting for him to drop; you KEEP pumping slugs into him til he goes down..Smile

It's like that in the real world as well. With 15 round clips, it is possible that three police officers can shoot someone 45 times if they perceive a threat.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:39 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Chances r that he was popping away a volley of rounds
with a fraction of a second in between them and that
the target did not drop b4 he ran out of ammunition, especially if he were only using 9mm.

Yes. Proper technique would involve emptying the entire clip into the center of the target's chest.

Six hits probably means that there were nine misses.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 01:40 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
Wassamatter with you mate? The black thug wasn't shot for jaywalking, he was shot for smashing the car door on the cop then diving on top of him in the car to try to grab his gun and then trying to make a getaway.

Maybe. But let's wait until all the evidence is in before we form any conclusions.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:00 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank I am going to try once more to reason with you rather than use emotion as you are. The "kid" was 6'2" tall and weighed over 200 pounds. I heard on the radio one of the people who autopsied him say 300 lbs. It takes about 3 seconds to fire 6 shots and "if" he had been struck may not have been all there. I have been struck by a man much smaller than this "kid" and stunned for 15 or 20 seconds. All I could do was grab and hold until my head cleared. I feel that no one is being fair to the cop even though the "kid" seems to have been belligrent and attacked him as several witnesses have testified too. If after the facts have all been assembled it is determined that he acted inapproately than he will be punished. But it seems to me you and the media along with the majority of the population of Ferguson want a lynching.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:07 pm
@farmerman,
Jaywalking isent the same thing as walking down the middle of the street which is what they were doing as even his companion admitted too. And he was shot for physically attacking a cop. Have you ever been sucker punched? I dont believe either you or Frank have been or you would realize that your thinking is jumbled weather or not you have been trained. Another guy who wants a lynching.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:15 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Frank I am going to try once more to reason with you rather than use emotion as you are. The "kid" was 6'2" tall and weighed over 200 pounds. I heard on the radio one of the people who autopsied him say 300 lbs. It takes about 3 seconds to fire 6 shots and "if" he had been struck may not have been all there. I have been struck by a man much smaller than this "kid" and stunned for 15 or 20 seconds. All I could do was grab and hold until my head cleared. I feel that no one is being fair to the cop even though the "kid" seems to have been belligrent and attacked him as several witnesses have testified too. If after the facts have all been assembled it is determined that he acted inapproately than he will be punished. But it seems to me you and the media along with the majority of the population of Ferguson want a lynching.


Okay...let's be reasonable.

The guy was big...huge.

Cops have to face huge people often.

No matter what, though, six bullets in him DOES SEEM EXCESSIVE.

I am not saying it is excessive...but it sure seems that way.

It seems as though the cop lost his cool...and decided that the young man was going to die.

He could have called for back-up...for help...he could simply have allowed the guy to get away.

Instead, he pumped SIX bullets into him.

Rabel...that seems excessive to me.

If it doesn't to you...or to Baldimo...or to everyone else in this forum...

...fine with me.

But to me...IT SEEMS EXCESSIVE.

I would hope that all policemen could handle that kind of situation in a less violent way.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:16 pm
@RABEL222,
And, NO...I do not want a lynching. So if you truly are being reasonable, you really ought not to be accusing me of that.

I want a fair investigation.
Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:22 pm
@Frank Apisa,
He has a broken face Frank... the kid hit him so hard he broke his eye socket...

Do you think the cop after getting hit that hard would want to protect himself? Have you talked to your "family" in LE? What is their opinion on this? Do they think it was excessive to protect themselves from someone who just broke their face?
Romeo Fabulini
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2014 02:38 pm
Frankie Apisa is a longterm fence-sitting philosopher, maintaining a strictly neutral stance about life, the universe and everything even though all the evidence and balance of probability points one way or the other.
That's why philosophers such as Nietzsche often end up going nutty because they've been denying reality for so long that they eventually lose their grip on it.
We all KNOW the officer HAD to gun down the black in self-defence..Smile
 

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