OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 08:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Lash wrote:

There are 4 movies he starred/acted in that are yet to be released. Just fyi.


Quote:
Mr. Williams hasn’t had a major hit comedy vehicle to his name since the $71 million-grossing RV in 2006.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2014/04/18/mrs-doubtfire-2-should-make-us-sad/

He was creatively dull over the last many years, and had known little other than commercial failure.....I doubt that there were substantial paydays attached to those 4 films. The $2 million for the failed series did little more than pay the tax bill for the ranch for a year, a bill he was not even expecting to need to pay.

8 years without a successful film, in an age when the studios are sucking it in box office and long ago decided to cut the costs of production by cutting the payday to the actors......Williams was mostly done in this business. Looking at BoxOfficoMojo it appears that we need to go all the way back to 1998 to find Williams in the lead of a successful move other than animation (Patch Adams). That was a long long time ago.
R u saying that Robin was insolvent??
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 09:45 pm
I'm not sure he did have long-term chronic clinical depression, although he was somewhat melancholic and sensitive. He did have long term problems with anxiety, and it was the anxiety he experienced while staying in a small town in Alaska that he said triggered his relapse into drinking in 2003 after 20 years of sobriety.

I've been watching and reading a lot of his old interviews and, while he does often refer to stress or anxiety, anxiety about just about everything, he really rarely mentioned depression.

He did comment on depression in an interview in 2006...
Quote:
On the dark side of comedians

Oh, they have a dark side, I mean, because they're looking at that. In the process of looking for comedy, you have to be deeply honest. And in doing that, you'll find out here's the other side. You'll be looking under the rock occasionally for the laughter. So they have a depressed side. But is it always the sad clown thing? No. But I find comics to be pretty honest people in terms of looking at stuff from both sides, or all sides. ...

I volunteered to be on the cover of a — I think it was Newsweek, for their issue on medication. ... And when the guy said, "Well, do you ever get depressed?" I said, "Yeah, sometimes I get sad." I mean, you can't watch news for more than three seconds and go, "Oh, this is depressing."

And then immediately, all of a sudden, they branded me manic-depressive. I was like, "Um, that's clinical? I'm not that." Do I perform sometimes in a manic style? Yes. Am I manic all the time? No. Do I get sad? Oh, yeah. Does it hit me hard? Oh, yeah.

I get bummed, like I think a lot of us do at certain times. You look at the world and go, "Whoa." And then other moments, you look and go, "Oh. Things are OK."
http://www.npr.org/2014/08/12/339823090/robin-williams-in-looking-for-laughter-you-have-to-be-deeply-honest


In another interview, done not long after his open heart surgery in 2009, that brush with vulnerability and mortality does seem to have changed him. It's also clear in that interview that his 3 year relapse into drinking between 2003-2006 had really messed up his relationships with his family.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/movies/22williams.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

While he wasn't broke, by anyone's standards (he ostensibly had a net worth of about $50 million), he was cash strapped due to his divorces, and he had set up trust funds for each of his three children. So he was under pressure to continue working, just to pay bills, even though he had said he wanted to slow down after his open heart surgery. He really never did slow down, he continued to do his one man tour, to make movies, do a Broadway play, and to complete one season of a new TV series before it was cancelled.

He had no difficulty getting work, an interesting variety of work, but the loss of the TV series this Spring was the loss of a steady paycheck, and it was a career set-back, and that apparently did affect him. He had several long-term projects in the works, including a possible sequel to Mrs. Doubtfire, something he really didn't want to reprise. So he was feeling some stress about finances, and their effect on his career choices, although none of this was very recent, and his financial situation was hardly dire according to those close to him. He continued to work and to earn good money. He had recently put his $29.5 million ranch back on the market, and he considered this "downsizing in a good way."

It is also possible that his open-heart surgery resulted in some depression, or increased a predisposition to depression, because that is not an uncommon consequence of such procedures--and it did make him feel more vulnerable and mortal. But I think his main demons were anxiety and his addiction to alcohol. He had just gone back into an alcohol rehab to allegedly "fine tune his sobriety" but it is quite possible he had already begun drinking again, in response to a variety of stressors, or sources of anxiety, and that's what plunged him into a really deep depression.

He may not have felt the strength to fight the addiction this time around, and he may have felt it would likely destroy his career, if it didn't kill him first, and again put his family through things he would later regret but never be able to undue. He might have felt they would be better off without him now, and that he was better off not going on until he really hit rock bottom. Starting to use alcohol again might have been the final defeat, the riptide of depression that really pulled him under, and he just gave up while he still had his dignity and reputation left.

So, my take, thus far, is that his alcoholism likely became active again, and it provoked a suicidal depression. And that view really isn't at odds with the things others here have been saying.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 10:07 pm
@firefly,
Well thought out analysis with supporting media information that seems to coincide with what his closest friends have said about him.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 10:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
He may not have felt the strength to fight the addiction this time around, and he may have felt it would likely destroy his career, if it didn't kill him first, and again put his family through things he would later regret but never be able to undue. He might have felt they would be better off without him now, and that he was better off not going on until he really hit rock bottom. Starting to use alcohol again might have been the final defeat, the riptide of depression that really pulled him under, and he just gave up while he still had his dignity and reputation left.


I question if he was functioning at a level that would have allowed him that amount of reasoning at the time of his suicide.

It surely have all the markings of an impulsed act with him first trying to cut his wrists and then using a belt with one end jam into the top of a closet door.

Not methods that most people would picked to end their lives if they have the ability to think logically at the time.
nononono
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 10:22 pm
The more I read about Williams, the more I sympathize.

3 wives. Two of which were bleeding him dry in alimony payments.

It's just both sad and sickening.

Another case of the anti-male court systems allowing women to live lives of leisure, while putting the financial burden for those live on the backs on men.

And what makes me even angrier is certain people in the news calling him a coward for "taking the easy way out". As if it's in ANY way OK for this man or any men like him to live their lives unhappy and burdened with the responsibility of supporting women who are doing NOTHING to help support them.

I guess William's should've just "Been a man", "Manned up", "Acted like a man", etc. I guess he should've just shut up, been stoic, and suffered in silence so that his ex wives could leech their livelihood off of him.

Because men's pain is taboo. Men are not allowed to talk about their feelings. If they do, society shames or outcasts them. Men are expected to suffer in silence.

Think about what the reactions would be in these two different scenarios:

1) A woman walks into the office she works at crying loudly.

2) A man walks into the office he works at crying loudly.

In which of these situations is the person who's crying going to be comforted or asked "what's wrong?" by their co-workers?

In which of these situations is the person going to be ignored or perhaps even made fun of for crying in public? Maybe even losing the respect of their co-workers?

Robin Williams death is yet ANOTHER example of society treating men as second class citizens. It's yet ANOTHER example of society trying to sweep men's suffering under the rug and pretend that it doesn't exist.

Gynocentric culture. That's what we live in. We live in a world that puts the needs, and wants, and best interests of women ahead of those of men.

Gynocentrism.

That's what needs to end.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 10:40 pm
@BillRM,
Suicides are often impulsive acts, regardless of method.

But the depressed mood and the suicidal ideation are already present, and that's what prompts the impulsive act.

I think a relapse into drinking would have been enough to push him over the edge in terms of suicide. It had taken him 3 years to get sober again after his last relapse in 2003, and he might no longer have had the stamina, or the will, to go through that again.
Quote:
In the interview, Williams also opens up about his drinking relapse after 20 years of sobriety, which reportedly played a role in his second divorce.

“One day I walked into a store and saw a little bottle of Jack Daniel’s. And then that voice -- I call it the ‘lower power’ -- goes, ‘Hey. Just a taste. Just one.’ I drank it, and there was that brief moment of ‘Oh, I’m okay!’ But it escalated so quickly. Within a week I was buying so many bottles I sounded like a wind chime walking down the street," he said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/robin-williams_n_3923027.html


So, when he had fallen off the wagon before, he fell hard. And he did a lot of damage to all of his relationships before he could get back on the wagon 3 years later. The thought of going through that again might have devastated him.

Quote:
Not methods that most people would picked to end their lives if they have the ability to think logically at the time.

He was thinking logically enough to chose a sufficiently lethal method.



OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 10:45 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
Not methods that most people would picked to end their lives
if they have the ability to think logically at the time.

He was thinking logically enough to chose a sufficiently lethal method.
Slow strangulation ?
Very odd. Very ad hoc.

Toxicology report will be very interesting.
Its hard to believe that he cud do that with clean blood.
phoebe4
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 11:34 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
May he rest in peace. He will always be remembered.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 11:42 pm
@phoebe4,
phoebe4 wrote:
May he rest in peace. He will always be remembered.
He will,
but Y does anyone think that he will be RESTING??????
How many people who have returned from the deaths of their human bodies
said that thay were RESTING?? I don t remember anyone saying:
"Hay, guys! Before I got back into my human body,
I was RESTING."

Does that imply that BEFORE Robin got into
his human body in the first place 64 years ago, he was RESTING??





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Aug, 2014 11:59 pm
When he discussed his prior relapse into drinking in 2003, Williams said
Quote:
"It's trying to fill the hole, and it's fear," he told Maron of what led him back to drinking. "You're going, 'What am I doing in my career?' You bottom out.... People say, 'You have an Academy Award.' The Academy Award lasted about a week, and then one week later people are going, 'Hey, Mork!'
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-robin-williams-last-days-20140813-story.html#page=1


And he said he had once contemplated suicide during that prior drinking relapse.

Williams had also spoken about being increasingly prone to bouts of depression since his open heart surgery in 2009. So the surgery was a factor in his depression.

Quote:
In recent months — as Williams wrestled with the cancellation of his CBS TV series "The Crazy Ones" and fought to maintain a sobriety that had at times proved fragile — those friends could see that he was losing that fight.

"He started to disconnect," comedian Rick Overton, a friend of Williams' since the 1970s, said Tuesday. "He wasn't returning calls as much. He would send texts and things like that, but they would get shorter and shorter."...

Comedian and longtime friend Steven Pearl ran into Williams at a barbecue last month in the San Francisco Bay Area, and he could see that something was wrong. Williams, who had battled drug and alcohol addiction early in his career, had just come out of a stint in rehab in Minnesota, where he had gone, his publicist said at the time, to "fine-tune and focus on his continued commitment" to his sobriety.

"You could just tell something was off," Pearl said. "He seemed detached. It's hard to explain. He didn't seem like his usual self. My fiancee and I were like, 'Is he OK?' I didn't know it would get this dark."...

In hopes of shoring up his finances and recapturing some of the old "Mork & Mindy" magic, he returned to television last fall with a highly touted starring role in the comedy "The Crazy Ones." CBS had high hopes for the show, on which Williams played an over-the-top Chicago ad man opposite Sarah Michelle Gellar. The gig also provided a steady paycheck — a reported $165,000 per episode — which he candidly admitted he needed....

"The Crazy Ones" started off strong, with more than 15 million tuning in for the Sept. 26 premiere, according to Nielsen. But the reviews were mixed and the audience steadily eroded as the season went on. Production on the series ended in March and was followed by a wrap party at Bugatta Supper Club in Los Angeles. But Williams wasn't able to attend because he was starting work on the film "Night at the Museum: Secret of the Tomb," the third installment in 20th Century Fox's comedy franchise.

On May 10, CBS announced "The Crazy Ones" wouldn't return for a second season. Friends say the news was a serious emotional blow to Williams, who had spoken of finding himself increasingly prone to bouts of depression ever since undergoing open-heart surgery in 2009.

"He took the cancellation of the show hard," Overton said. "It would hit any of us hard, but especially a heart patient who has depression. The one-two punch of that can make all the difference in the world. He got real quiet. I've known those eyes for decades. I know where the spark is supposed to be."

In late spring, Williams wrapped up work on the latest "Night at the Museum" film — reprising his role as Theodore Roosevelt — and voiced a talking dog in "Absolutely Anything," a sci-fi comedy from former "Monty Python" star Terry Jones. It would be his last professional job.

In early July, Williams checked himself into the Hazelden addiction treatment center in Center City, Minn. He had not fallen off the wagon, his publicist said at the time, but was instead struggling to hold himself together as he crumbled under the weight of depression.

What transpired in the weeks between Williams' return from Hazelden and his death is unknown except to those closest to the actor...
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-robin-williams-last-days-20140813-story.html#page=1

It does seem likely that career anxieties once again surfaced, and he may have started drinking again to try "to fill that hole," and to try to fight off a depression which only grew worse, and which alcohol would have made worse. But, this time, when thoughts of suicide again surfaced, he tragically acted on them.
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 12:03 am
@nononono,
I think it's really unfortunate and actually pretty irresponsible how the media and people are focusing more on things like Williams alcoholism instead of focussing on the fact that the man was suffering.

Alcoholism was merely a symptom in this case of a much more serious problem. Focussing too much on it is the equivalent of suggesting that a person who had phenomena should've taken more cough syrup to have fixed their condition.

No, alcohol certainly didn't do anything to help Mr. Williams. It was certainly a factor that exacerbated his depression. Had he been able to better control his addiction it would've helped. But it wouldn't have alleviated his depression. The root cause as far as I would speculate, likely lay in his feelings of being burdened, and his feeling of isolation.

By most accounts, while Williams was a live wire while the camera was rolling, he was very withdrawn and introverted in personal interactions.

I would be willing to speculate that Williams was very much afraid of talking to people about his personal problems including his financial burdens. I would be willing to speculate that Williams was afraid of talking to his friends about how unhappy he was because of both the persona that he felt he needed to maintain (one of positivity), and because he knew on some unconscious (or maybe even conscious) level that men simply aren't supposed to talk to people about their feelings. Men can't show weakness.

I think it's INCREDIBLY irresponsible to not use the death of Williams as a catalyst to discuss the epidemic of male suicide. Suicide and suicidal ideation is something that affects males FAR more than it does women. And a HUGE part of the reason it does is because men are expected to suffer in silence while women are allowed to voice any and every displeasure they feel.

Society MUST quit putting women's needs SO far above men's, and that includes stopping the shaming or belittling of men for speaking up about being depressed or unhappy. That includes taking men's issues seriously. That includes not viewing men's pain as either a taboo subject or a joke altogether.

It's time for us as a society to say "We love our men." It's time to for us to change our attitudes AND our actions.

I for one love all my brothers, and I refuse to not take their pain seriously.
roger
 
  6  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 12:28 am
@nononono,
Must you keep pushing your "men's issues" into every post you make? It's more than tiresome; it's cheap.
nononono
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 12:36 am
@roger,
Quote:
Must you keep pushing your "men's issues" into every post you make? It's more than tiresome; it's cheap.


1) How is Robin Williams death not a "Man's issue"? Was Williams not a man? Would discussing how men don't have outlets to talk about their depression not be beneficial to men who are depressed???

2) So the fact that suicide victims are by in large male isn't an issue that needs to be addressed? It's an issue that's "tiresome" or "cheap"? Well I'm so sorry that all these men killing themselves and me bringing it up had to spoil your day. I guess those men should just "Man up" and shut up about their depression and unhappiness.
roger
 
  4  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 12:39 am
@nononono,
Using someone else's tragedy to promote your own agenda is nothing but cheap. Start your own "men's" discussion if you like. Oh, you already have? So, go there.
nononono
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 12:50 am
@roger,
Of course!

Let's just overlook the facts that (for instance) Williams was being financially drained by former wives, and that he felt the need to keep his personal pain bottled up (because society expects men to be stoic and not complain).

Nope, those don't sound like VALID MEN'S ISSUES at all!!!

Let's all just look the other way at losing a phenomenally talented man.

Let's not acknowledge that suicide is an epidemic among men.

Let's not acknowledge that men are expected to not speak up about their depression.

Let's blame it all on booze, and not examine the root issues.

Because for me to make a connect between Williams death and the prevalence of suicide among men is "pushing an agenda" and not at all relevant to the subject matter. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 01:01 am
@nononono,
nononono wrote:
It's time for us as a society to say "We love our men."
It's time to for us to change our attitudes AND our actions.
I, for one, dont feel much need for that.
0 Replies
 
nononono
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 01:02 am
@roger,
Quote:
Using someone else's tragedy to promote your own agenda


#yesallwomen. Sound familiar?

Because using the murders of 6 people to paint a COMPLETELY false picture of men isn't using a tragedy to promote an agenda. Of course it's not...

But OF COURSE, using a well known person's suicide to point out that a particular part of society is FAR FAR more prone to suicide, and pointing out that that needs to be recognized is promoting an agenda. Of course it is...

Your viewpoint is gynocentric Roger. You are part of the problem.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 01:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Slow strangulation ?
Very odd. Very ad hoc.

Toxicology report will be very interesting.
Its hard to believe that he cud do that with clean blood.

Hanging is a common method of of suicide--in the U.K. it's the most common method, in the U.S. it's the second most common, after firearms.

What Williams did is considered short-drop hanging, or partial hanging.

It's not slow strangulation if done effectively--which involves cutting off the main blood supply to the brain rather than just the airway. Unconsciousness can be achieved in 15 seconds or less, and death after 5 minutes, making it relatively rapid and relatively painless.

Like almost everything else these days, you can find out how to do it on a Web site. Perhaps that is what Williams did.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/hanging/short-drop/simple-suspension

I realize that the coroner is legally obligated to make public the cause and method of death, but I really would have preferred not to hear all the gory details in this case. I agree with William's wife, we should remember his life, and not the manner of his death. But given the graphic picture the coroner painted, I find that a little hard to do right now. I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's a very disturbing image to be left with.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 01:50 am
Quote:
Now Samaritans has complained about "excessive detail" in some of Wednesday's national newspapers about how Robin Williams took his own life.

"The media has come a long way over the past few years in terms of sensitively reporting suicide (read " self censoring reports of suicide" ) , which is why we are concerned to see that there have been a large number of articles detailing unnecessary information about the nature of Robin Williams' death," it said in a statement.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28772923

In other news Williams publicist says that he had no money troubles, that when he said that he was selling the ranch (which has been on the market off and on for over a year and has not sold even with price reduction) because he could not afford to keep it and that he was happy to have a steady paycheck (which he lost) because he had bills to pay an no other good options to get money.....he was joking.

https://celebrity.yahoo.com/blogs/celeb-news/robin-williams-had-no-financial-problems-prior-to-death-says-rep-234957680.html
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Aug, 2014 02:05 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
Slow strangulation ?
Very odd. Very ad hoc.

Toxicology report will be very interesting.
Its hard to believe that he cud do that with clean blood.

Hanging is a common method of of suicide--in the U.K. it's the most common method, in the U.S. it's the second most common, after firearms.

What Williams did is considered short-drop hanging, or partial hanging.

It's not slow strangulation if done effectively--which involves cutting off the main blood supply to the brain rather than just the airway. Unconsciousness can be achieved in 15 seconds or less, and death after 5 minutes, making it relatively rapid and relatively painless.

Like almost everything else these days, you can find out how to do it on a Web site. Perhaps that is what Williams did.
http://lostallhope.com/suicide-methods/hanging/short-drop/simple-suspension

I realize that the coroner is legally obligated to make public the cause and method of death, but I really would have preferred not to hear all the gory details in this case. I agree with William's wife, we should remember his life, and not the manner of his death. But given the graphic picture the coroner painted, I find that a little hard to do right now. I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's a very disturbing image to be left with.
Then don t pay attention to it
or to any part of the suicide if u feel that way, but it is a public matter.
I object to demands for censorship. The sheriff shud not stifle himself.

Hanging can cause instant death,
but not if the neck remains intact, as it appears to have been
in this case, with death resulting from slow strangulation.
Presumably, he ingested some sedative to make those last moments tolerable,
but we will not know until the toxicology report is issued. While executing a suicide,
remaining sober is no longer important.
 

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