Malaysia Airlines jet crashes in Ukraine

@hawkeye10,

Well, there was a plane, Mkay shot out of the air, Mkay....who thinks this was done by a Stinger? Mkay, 3 of you need to stop, this is serious, and that's the honest to God ****. The freaking Russian separatists shot it down with weapons delivered by mother Russia.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

If you think a missile shoot down of a commercial aircraft with 298 people on it is not a crime, there's nothing more I can discuss with you! Your ignorance is beyond my patience level.

Geeze, CI, imagine how people with an actual conscience might feel. 298! What of 50,000 Nicaraguans, 3 million Vietnamese, a million Iraqis, how many millions of afghans, ... .

Scrap those aircraft carriers you've named after war criminals, add "war criminal" to "Reagan airport", transport Obama to a prison cell accompanied by all your other equally war criminal politicians.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

US working on case against Russia on downed plane

"Russia is supporting these separatists. Russia is arming these separatists. Russia is training these separatists, and Russia has not yet done the things necessary in order to try to bring them under control," kerry said.

"Earth to Major Hypocrite Kerry, calling Major Hypocrite Kerry, you've got your own band of war criminals to reign in, yourself included."

It's ******* phantasmagorical, it's kafkaesque, it's ... ...

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@JTT,

Quote:

Earth to Major Hypocrite Kerry, calling Major Hypocrite Kerry, you've got your own band of war criminals to reign in, yourself included."

It's ******* phantasmagorical, it's kafkaesque, it's ... ...

I think at this point it has been proven that Kerry uses his own personal language. Given that it is difficult to gauge his state of mind, since what his words mean is constantly a mystery.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Virtually every USA politician would be in the same boatload of hypocrisy, Hawk. Please remind me of one that isn't. I want to believe there is at least a drop of sanity in the USA.

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@JTT,

Why, do you live in the US? If you do, maybe you would be more comfortable in Syria or some other utopia.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
If you think a missile shoot down of a commercial aircraft with 298 people on it is not a crime, there's nothing more I can discuss with you

I am sorry, where did you see an announcement supported by evidence that this is what happened? When I look around the web today I see claims that the US and others are still working on this.

case in point via AP with AP writers:

Quote:
US working on case against Russia on downed plane

http://news.yahoo.com/us-working-case-against-russia-downed-plane-071134109--politics.html

Are you being deliberately contrary?

The whole world knows what happened. The only question unanswered is just how deep into this Russia is.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

You are waaaay out of line with that comment!!!
To even make that comment is so far beyond normal conversation its not funny.
I think that if you have to make comments like that your best option is simply to not say anything at all.

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@mysteryman,

Yes, that was the final straw. I won't be following him any more.

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On Radio 4 today a commentator said there's a perception that Putin is like a Bond villain sat in his lair with information coming in. The truth is far from that. Putin came to power in 1999, pretty much pre internet, and he's never had to campaign or raise money for re-election. Many of the more liberal, pragmatic members of his circle have been dismissed meaning there's not really any dissenting voices.

Like many ex intelligence officers he places far too much value on intelligence as opposed to news, meaning that a report filed by a Russian field officer with an eye on promotion will be taken far more seriously than a thousand news reports, tweets or videos posted on youtube.

Putin is beginning to believe his own bs. People who have met Putin says he makes elementary errors about what's going on. He doesn't just interpret facts to fit his narrative, he gets the facts wrong. They're then faced with a dilemma, do they correct him, and probably miss out on a lucrative contract, or do they reinforce his delusion. Whatever they do, that's not the way to conduct business.

Putin has painted himself into a corner, the Russian media has accused the Ukrainian government of shooting down the airliner on the grounds that they will benefit. The notion that this could have been an accident carried out by inept separatists doesn't come into it. When the international investigation concludes the latter, things will get very difficult.

There is a story trending in Russian media right now about how Ukrainian soldiers crucified a young boy. There are no facts or evidence to support this story whatsoever, which is why no media organisation outside Russia has reported it, but it's being reported as true inside Russia where paranoia and conspiracy theories rule.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

You are waaaay out of line with that comment!!!

That is incorrect. I have the right to defend myself when I am attacked.

I accuse you of hypocrisy, as you object to me defending myself while not objecting to people launching attacks against me.

mysteryman wrote:

To even make that comment is so far beyond normal conversation its not funny.

It was neither normal conversation nor a joke. It was a bar brawl where the other party was entirely at fault.

mysteryman wrote:

I think that if you have to make comments like that your best option is simply to not say anything at all.

You are wrong. To simply allow myself to be attacked without defending myself will only make the attacks even worse.

---

I advise being less of a hypocrite if you have future complaints about me.

While I did take the time to address your complaint point by point here, in truth I don't pay much heed to two-faced complaints that are based entirely on hypocritical double standards.

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@roger,

roger wrote:

Yes, that was the final straw. I won't be following him any more.

If you object to me defending myself when I am attacked, then you should also object to the fact that I was attacked.

Fair is fair.

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@roger,

Need I point out your, and MM's hypocrisy, Roger the dodger? Glitterbag also earned herself a NSFW tag.

I just don't get these folks that get the vapours over strong language but are completely comfortable with their governments' slaughter of millions.

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@glitterbag,

Quote:

Why, do you live in the US? If you do, maybe you would be more comfortable in Syria or some other utopia.

Gee, I never thought I'd hear this stunningly ignorant "love it or leave it" meme from you, gbag. I thought you would pointedly address the facts, address the stunning hypocrisy of the USA, of the Finns, the MMs, the Roger the dodger types.

And you forgot to mention who is responsible for the vast majority of these dystopias, but that bastion of liberty and freedom, the good ole us of a.

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@mysteryman,

Quote:

You are waaaay out of line with that comment!!!
To even make that comment is so far beyond normal conversation its not funny.

Oralloy is "way out of line" with a comment about gang rape but y'all are completely comfortable with your governments training people to actually do these, and much worse things.

Quote:

I don't mean to abuse you with verbal violence, but you have to understand what your [USA] government and its agents are doing. They go into villages, they haul out families. With the children forced to watch they castrate the father, they peel the skin off his face, they put a grenade in his mouth and pull the pin. With the children forced to watch they gang-rape the mother, and slash her breasts off. And sometimes for variety, they make the parents watch while they do these things to the children.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/StockwellCIA87_2.html

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European Union leaders will be meeting in Brussels soon (it may already have begun) to discuss strengthening sanctions. Following the collaspe of the former USSR business people from all over the world invested their capital in Russian businesses, brought business to Russia and a ton of money was made. The world community cannot ignore such egregious lack of discipline the Putin backed sepratists displayed when they shot down a civilian airliner in a authorized flight pattern. The same thing happened to the Korean airliner in 1983, that flight also was in an authorized flight path, sloppy discipline and poor impulse control of the cowboys on the ground inflicted suffering on non combatants.

I doubt the usual Russian denials will work. It's no longer 1917, it much more difficult to erase hostile actions from international oversight. Today, the FAA was forced to suspend US airlines flights to and from Tel Aviv. I think Luftansa, AirFrance and several others followed. So, international airliners have had to drastically alter normal business because of armed crazy people who have different goals than building better lives or living onditions.

I hope that European leaders find a way to successfully deal with Russia's ambitious baby tzar Cold War Putin. The whole world needs a break.

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@glitterbag,

That's if the 'world leaders' have any fortitude to make Putin pay a high price.

A total embargo on Russia would be a good start. That would also be a lesson for future leaders like Putin to stop and think before they act out aggression on the world community.

The US has an embargo against Cuba; what harm have they done to the world community - or even to the US?

1 Reply

@glitterbag,

glitterbag wrote:

The same thing happened to the Korean airliner in 1983, that flight also was in an authorized flight path, sloppy discipline and poor impulse control of the cowboys on the ground inflicted suffering on non combatants.

As I recall, that plane wildly diverged from its flight path and strayed into restricted Soviet airspace near sensitive military bases.

It would have been nice if the Soviets had made sure it wasn't a wayward passenger jet, but they did genuinely believe they were downing a spyplane.

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@oralloy,

oral boy, That was a commercial aircraft.

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@cicerone imposter,

Here's the latest news; Russia not involved.

Quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior U.S. intelligence officials say they have no evidence of direct Russian government involvement in the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17.

They say the passenger jet was likely felled by an SA-11 surface-to-air missile fired by Russian-backed separatists in eastern Ukraine and that Russia "created the conditions" for the downing by arming the separatists.

Yup, they're not involved. Just that the missile came from Russia, and the people who trained them had to be Russian. Yup, no involvement.

Give a gun to a kid, show him/her how to shoot it, then when that kid kills another kid, the person who taught that kid how to shoot is not responsible.

Blame the gun!

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Malaysia Airlines jet crashes in Ukraine

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