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Bergdahl Prisoner Swap:Obama Obeys ONLY the Laws He Wants To.

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 12:32 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Is there a reason that his father speaks Moslem ?

"Moslem"? Is that anything like "pinko," or "commie"?
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 12:45 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Is that anything like "pinko," or "commie"?


No their ideology is fascist and Nazi like in many ways. But you are here to be snarky, aren't you?
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
There may not be enough evidence to prove he deserted, but that doesn't mean he didn't. You seem to be satisfied on the question of Bergdahl's health because spies and intelligence signals agents "should know." I'm satisfied that his fellow servicemen "should know" and they say he deserted.



How do they know he deserted if they didn't see Bergdahl when we went missing? No one reported seeing him walk away, so no one can actually be a witness to him deserting his post. So those saying he deserted are making false statements because they were not a witness to the actual statements of fact they are making. They should have just said, it is our considered opinion based on the fact that he left his weapon behind that he deserted and that would not have been a false statement.

If I repeat myself it is because the same similar statements get repeated in which I respond to.

I read (in which I left a link to some few post ago) that Bergdahl intent couldn't be proven because he was not there to ask was the reason a definitive charge of desertion was not found at the end of the investigation.

coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:08 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
I read (in which I left a link to some few post ago) that Bergdahl intent


The intent doesn't matter. He deserted.

Quote:
Meanwhile, a former Army Specialist says they were told to dummy up about the deserter Bergdahl:

“We had all known that it was — that he had deserted his post,” Fuller said Wednesday on Fox and Friends, “And there was never anything about him getting captured or a POW until a little while later whenever it came down from the chain of command that we needed to keep quiet about it, not say anything, and that ‘we’re going with the narrative that he was captured.’”

Fuller alleged that attacks on the base after Bergdahl left “were very precise and very accurate”, appearing to exploit tactics that only someone from the base would know about. “You could tell it was from somebody on the inside that had that info.

http://www.jammiewf.com/2014/white-house-aides-we-didnt-know-that-they-were-going-to-swift-boat-bergdahl/
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:13 pm
@coldjoint,
coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Is that anything like "pinko," or "commie"?


No their ideology is fascist and Nazi like in many ways. But you are here to be snarky, aren't you?

Yeah, for the most part, nevertheless, I've never heard of the language, "Moslem."
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:32 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
I've never heard of the language, "Moslem."


It is apparent you do not care about Islam or think that if ignored will go away.
Look at this statement.

Quote:
Idiot's guide to Islam: The purpose of this blog is to inform, explain and enlighten people from all over the world about the origins of the Quran and Muhammadan Islam. We shall explore almost every aspect of Muhammadan Islam from its very beginnings till modern times, relying almost ENTIRELY upon the Arabic and Islamic sources themselves to prove the statements and conclusions here in declared.

http://www.the-koran.blogspot.com/
Those conclusions are not good. People will not accept the obvious.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:38 pm
Quote:

1. Islam has not been hijacked. That Islam has been hijacked is what non-Muslims naturally assume because they assume all religions are the same. So they further assume that some crazies must have hijacked the religion because surely no religion would actually encourage the killing of innocents. We want to believe the religion has been hijacked. Once people realize it isn't true, we can start talking about real solutions.

2. Muslims are allowed to deceive non-Muslims if it helps Islam. The principle of taqiyya is surprising to non-Muslims. Knowing about the principle helps immunize non-Muslims from the deception. They can at least not take everything a Muslim leader says at face value. You can see (and share) some excellent examples of taqiyya in the movie, Obsession.

3. Striving to institute worldwide Shari'a law is a religious duty. Many people don't realize how politically-oriented Islam is at its core. Shari'a is the law of Allah. Any other form of government is a sin. It is their duty as a Muslim to keep striving until all governments have been converted to Shari'a law. I think when kafirs understand this, they will immediately grasp the basic principle that all governments must immediately stop all concessions to Islam
.

http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2008/10/least-you-need-to-know-about-islam.html

Our president knows this to be fact. Obama is a traitor.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:43 pm
@InfraBlue,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Is there a reason that his father speaks Moslem ?
InfraBlue wrote:
"Moslem"? Is that anything like "pinko," or "commie"?
It IS, YES!!!
Thay are all anti-freedom, anti-Individual totalitarian philosophy.

No joke, it really IS, not that I 'm any big expert on the Moslems.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 01:57 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:

How do they know he deserted if they didn't see Bergdahl when we went missing?


According to the NYT's yesterday, Bergdahl left a note informing his colleagues he was leaving.

"Bowe Bergdahl's Vanishing Before Capture Angered His Unit
New York Times ‎- 1 day ago

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html?_r=0

"WASHINGTON — Sometime after midnight on June 30, 2009, Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl left behind a note in his tent saying he had become disillusioned with the Army, did not support the American mission in Afghanistan and was leaving to start a new life. He slipped off the remote military outpost in Paktika Province on the border with Pakistan and took with him a soft backpack, water, knives, a notebook and writing materials, but left behind his body armor and weapons — startling, given the hostile environment around his outpost.

That account, provided by a former senior military officer briefed on the investigation into the private’s disappearance, is part of a more complicated picture emerging of the capture of a soldier whose five years as a Taliban prisoner influenced high-level diplomatic negotiations, brought in foreign governments, and ended with him whisked away on a helicopter by American commandos.

"The release of Sergeant Bergdahl (he was promoted in captivity) has created political problems for the Obama administration, which is having to defend his exchange for five Taliban detainees held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, but it also presents delicate politics for Republicans who are attacking, through surrogates, America’s last known prisoner of war.

"The furious search for Sergeant Bergdahl, his critics say, led to the deaths of at least two soldiers and possibly six others in the area. Pentagon officials say those charges are unsubstantiated and are not supported by a review of a database of casualties in the Afghan war.

“Yes, I’m angry,” Joshua Cornelison, a former medic in Sergeant Bergdahl’s platoon, said in an interview on Monday arranged by Republican strategists. “Everything that we did in those days was to advance the search for Bergdahl. If we were doing some mission and there was a reliable report that Bergdahl was somewhere, our orders were that we were to quit that mission and follow that report.”

"Sergeant Bergdahl slipped away from his outpost, the former senior officer said, possibly on foot but more likely hiding in a contractor’s vehicle. “He didn’t walk out the gate through a checkpoint, and there was no evidence he breached the perimeter wire and left that way,” the ex-officer said.

"It was not until the 9 a.m. roll call on June 30 that the 29 soldiers of Second Platoon, Blackfoot Company, learned he was gone.

“I was woken up by my platoon leader,” said Mr. Cornelison, who had gone to sleep just three hours before after serving watch from 11 p.m. to 2 a.m. “Hey Doc,” his platoon leader said. “Have you seen Bergdahl?”

"Platoon members said Sergeant Bergdahl, of Hailey, Idaho, was known as bookish and filled with romantic notions that some found odd.

“He wouldn’t drink beer or eat barbecue and hang out with the other 20-year-olds,” Cody Full, another member of Sergeant Bergdahl’s platoon, said in an interview on Monday also arranged by Republican strategists. “He was always in his bunk. He ordered Rosetta Stone for all the languages there, learning Dari and Arabic and Pashto.”

The soldiers began a frantic search for Sergeant Bergdahl using Predator drones, Apache attack helicopters and military tracking dogs. The most intense search operation, leaked war reports show, wound down after eight days — well before the deaths of six soldiers on patrols in Paktika Province in late August and early September. But, complicating matters, some soldiers contend they were effectively searching for 90 days because of clear orders: If they heard rumors from locals that Sergeant Bergdahl might be nearby, they should patrol the area.
______
More in Link above
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:01 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Well, at least that something substantial, but why wasn't he charged if he left a note?
coldjoint
 
  2  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:10 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
said in an interview on Monday also arranged by Republican strategists.

What do Republicans have to do with the colossal stupidity of Obama? Trying to shift the blame?
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:26 pm
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-x33RxoBwKyo/U42jsPhrWNI/AAAAAAAAfFI/CXZUsB5GwpQ/s1600/KIA+1-501st+PIR.jpg
Quote:
These men from Bergdahls unit were killed in action looking for him in the days immediately following Bergdahl's desertion

Are those Republicans, Democrats, or just dead?
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:42 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:

Well, at least that something substantial, but why wasn't he charged if he left a note?


The US military would like to hear Bergdahl's version. At any rate the military doesn't charge people until there's been a thorough investigation and Bergdahl up until recently was in captivity. We don't know what his reasons were although at first blush one would think he believed war and violence are unjustifiable and felt deep sorrow for the people in the area. His notes home to his family hinted at this and at heart he might have discovered, rather lately, he was a pacifist.

Bergdahl impressed some of his military colleagues as being "otherworldly", a dreamer, and a loner, who did not eat barbecue and participate in the fun with his military mates. Defense Secretary Hagel has suggested we not second guess Bergdahl until there's been an investigation. Meanwhile, he's recovering. But it does look as if this misguided young man was a deserter.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:51 pm
@revelette2,
Quote:
Sometime after midnight on June 30, 2009, Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl left behind a note in his tent saying he had become disillusioned with the Army, did not support the American mission in Afghanistan and was leaving to start a new life. He slipped off the remote military outpost in Paktika Province on the border with Pakistan and took with him a soft backpack, water, knives, a notebook and writing materials, but left behind his body armor and weapons — startling, given the hostile environment around his outpost.

That account, provided by a former senior military officer briefed on the investigation into the private’s disappearance...


Quote:
“He had sent all his belongings home — his computer, personal items,” said Mr. Full, now 25. He said Sergeant Bergdahl used to gaze at the mountains around them and say he wondered if he could get to China from there.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us-soldier-srgt-bowe-bergdahl-of-idaho-pow-vanished-angered-his-unit.html?_r=0

Quote:
“The US army is the biggest joke the world has to laugh at,” Bergdahl wrote in an e-mail to his parents, according to Rolling Stone magazine, adding: “It is the army of liars, backstabbers, fools, and bullies. The few good SGTs [sergeants] are getting out as soon as they can, and they are telling us privates to do the same.”


Quote:
“I am sorry for everything here. These people need help, yet what they get is the most conceited country in the world telling them that they are nothing and that they are stupid, that they have no idea how to live,” Bergdahl said in his mail, according to the Rolling Stones.


http://www.ibtimes.com/bowe-bergdahl-had-called-us-army-biggest-joke-full-liars-backstabbers-fools-bullies-letter-1593620

At the very least, he was AWOL. They know he didn't leave the base with permission. They can be pretty damned certain that the Taliban didn't sneak into the base in the middle of the night and spirit him away. So they at least know he "walked away" (or hung on to a truck leaving the base or skipped away or, who know?, maybe even flew away) from the base without permission - as the Pentagon investigation apparently concluded.

No one believes he had to use the latrine that night and chose to use one off the base and was there captured by Taliban.

Why would he "walk away?"

The NYT's source say the investigation turned up the letter referred to above. If he was talking to any of his fellow servicemen the way he was writing to his parents, they knew he was deeply dissatisfied with his situation. These men lived and worked with him. Full was his friend. They concluded he deserted, and while there is always a chance that they may be wrong, that Bergdahl left the base to collect local flowers or just stretch his legs in an area filled with people who wanted to kill American soldiers, their conclusion can hardly be deemed groundless.

Unless you or anyone else knows and can prove that Bergdahl did not desert, saying that he did is not a "false statement." It may be an unsupported statement, it may be a rash statement, but it can only be a false statement to someone who has concluded that he didn't desert, which is what the government spokesperson who accused the servicemen of making false statements has done... because it fits the desired Administration narrative a whole lot better than him being even suspected of desertion.

There are plenty of successful prosecutions that are based on circumstantial evidence, and a determination of intent doesn't require the suspect to announce "I intended to commit this crime." I don't have a problem with the Pentagon refusing to assert he deserted (even if that's what everyone believed) until they had an opportunity to interview him. Due process is due process and Bergdahl deserved and still deserves that before he is legally pronounced a deserter. The notion, however, that they can't determine intent without talking to him is absurd. Keep in mind too that the Pentagon was hardly keen on declaring Bergdahl a deserter when they investigated his disappearance. In 2010 they had no reason to be certain that he would ever be released.

Yet again, only if the Pentagon court martials him is anyone required to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he is a deserter.

Bergdahl will always have the option to bring an action for libel or slander against anyone who is printing or saying that he is a deserter. He will have to prove the statement is false to prevail though.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:53 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Apparently Moment-in-Tme linked the NYT article while I was writing this post.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 02:56 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Quote:
But it does look as if this misguided young man was a deserter.


Are we supposed to pity him? Let's forgive those killers from the Taliban too, oh we already did. Why don't I feel better?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 03:06 pm
I am hearing a lot" the people who dont like Obama would be complaining no matter what Obama did here, so the complaints are not worth pursuing"...this in spite of the fact that some of the loudest complaints are coming from the military, which tends to not speak on political matters, or against their commander in chef. After Obama's disrespect for the military from day one, his decision the slash the military budget, his lack of interest in a quality VA as well as other slights the military is no longer quite so quiet.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 03:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
Did he announce a pardon for Bowe, yet ?
coldjoint
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 03:14 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Did he announce a pardon for Bowe, yet ?


Who knows, Obama is devious enough to have him shot if it means more votes this November. What is best for this country is not his concern. The Democrats retaining power is what it is all about for Obama and his ilk.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jun, 2014 03:52 pm
@coldjoint,
The term "misguided" does imply a sympathetic subject

I suppose one can have some measure of sympathy for a fool who joins the Army thinking he he is going to work for the Red Cross, but any sympathy for him that I might have had evaporates when he deserts. Not because it suggests he is a coward (I am very reluctant and circumspect about throwing that word around in regards to anyone serving in the military within a combat area - and his fellow servicemen have never suggested he was), but he abandoned his fellow soldiers. I am very lucky to never have found myself in combat, but I have read and heard enough first hand accounts of men (including members of my family) who did to know the formation of a sense of brotherhood and the reliance and obligation it entails is extremely important to them and drives them through times when anyone might be considered sane for turning around and heading for the hills.

Notwithstanding anyone's personal opinions about war, its necessity, its follies, its horror, the men who fight in wars don't get to ponder these things in the middle of a battle.Their lives depend in large measure on the actions of their fellow soldiers. This shared exposure to violent, sudden death and the dependence upon one another to escape it forges a bond that people who have not shared such moments with others probably can't completely appreciate. I know I can't even though I know that the strongest bonds I have formed with others involved the sharing of hardship.

This breaking of a sacred oath surfaces in all of the comments made by the fellow soldiers who have spoken out on him. They are particularly angry over the fact that they had to put their lives at risk for someone who decided they were no long worth doing the same, and the idea that some even died trying to find him obviously infuriates them.

The definition of misguided includes being "misled," but who misled Bergdahl? Did the recruiters who signed him up tell him he would be sent on a mission of mercy and peace in Afghanistan? Surely there has been enough media coverage of the war (movies, books, TV documentaries as well as news coverage) that it would be virtually impossible for some doe-eyed kid volunteering for the army to realize wasn't joining a Peace Corps with guns. The media didn't mislead him, and I seriously doubt the Army misled him so if he was misled who was responsible?

There's little indication that he was a kid with warrior fantasies, but it's been reported that he wanted to join the French Foreign Legion. Surely he didn't think they were a corp of international do-gooders.

There is not a vast body of materials providing insight of what he was thinking while there, but what is available suggests someone less disappointed in the lack of opportunity to win the hearts and minds of the locals but more resentful of the culture and personnel he found in the Army.

For those who begin with animosity for the military he probably is seen in a sympathetic light since he seems to be confirming the negatives they assume exist.

It's hard for me to get very excited by anyone who sympathizes with Bergdahl, for whatever reason motivates them. They, obviously, don't see things the way I do, and, on this matter, it doesn't really impact me that they don't.
0 Replies
 
 

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