Obamacare... 'Affordable'???

You certainly aren't.

In fact, there are plenty of people online getting paid to take a particular side on important issues.

They are called shills and are paid to spread disinformation.

They disgust me.

You aren't suggesting that I'm making this up.. are you?

God hit me dead with lightning.

I don't know that the numbers are exact, but from what I was told by the insurance agent, it's really close... give or take a couple dollars. The insurance agent had a chart that shows approximately what each person based on their age is going to pay (without subsidies). I promise you, it's scary. I would give the EXACT numbers from the healthcare.glitch website but I can't get the results... it won't give them to me even though I have spent over 7 hours trying to get the results. I filled out all the information... then when that wouldn't work, an agent on the phone filled it out and after those two fun hours on the phone it STILL wouldn't give the eligibility results. They are going to send me a paper version... which is suppose to be here within three weeks.

I asked him... I thought the 9.5% was suppose to be the max. He said that number applies to people making under the 4 X amount. Then I asked but what about the deductible... is that part of it he said no. So basically they can charge you 9.5% if you make $92,400 or lower... but then also tag you with a ridiculous deductible. How is that not part of the 9.5% maximum? Heck... why not just say the most we can charge you is 2% of your income and then give you a $10,000 per person deductible or $25,000 per family?

This is insane.

I was buying private insurance on the open market for the four of us a couple years ago. Husband and two daughters totaled $10,000/year in premiums and deductibles. I wasn't eligible for insurance in the marketplace because of a previous small stroke (10 years prior, picture of health otherwise). My own policy in a state run pool was $11,000 in premiums and deductibles. I don't know what it's going to be next year because I haven't run the numbers yet, but I'll be thrilled if my family of four gets coverage for $19,000 in premiums and deductibles. Welcome to the world of market pricing. It's not new.

If you aren't a shill, and if you are whining so much, then why don't you just buy private health insurance?

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the people you need health care and appreciate the Affordable Care Act it shouldn't be happy.

What's your point?

I think the one of the very biggest problems in all of healthcare is the unfairness to really small business owners. I will give an example.

My mother is 64 and a nurse at a hospital. Not only does she make a very nice salary (something over $43 an hour the last I heard... 18 years in)... but she also get's great insurance. The insurance premium she pays for both her and my dad (also 64) is $325 a month with a $1,000 a year deductible... I think she might have even said it was only $500. This is with my dad's history who has diabetes and has already had a bout of prostate cancer. Because my wife and I own a business, we don't get a 'group discount' for insurance. I looked into getting the same policy as my parents (who are 22 years older than us)... and our premium for just the two of us was $800 a month plus a $2,500 deductible each / $5000 for the family (of two). My point is it's always been too high to pay. Now we will be forced to either buy it or pay a penalty which also will do us no good. Last year I paid $22,200 in taxes... so now I guess I'm going to have to pay an additional $2,000+ (after this year because it's only about $900 this year).

I get that YOU'RE thrilled... you had a previous stroke. Why should my wife and I have to pay a ton of money though?

Yeah, I guess you could say... well why don't you get a job at the hospital like your mother? If I could I would, but that's not what I went to college for. It wasn't this crazy 14 years ago when I started college, otherwise perhaps I would have aimed towards a job at a hospital.

I think the solution for millions of people who own small business (and their families) is that they group similar professions together so they can get similar pricing on health insurance. This $1,300... $1,600 a month for health insurance is crazy. Because we made nearly $90,000 we owe a lot more in other bills. So a family that makes $32,000 will end up getting their insurance free (because of subsidies). Well take away the money we paid in college loans last year $15,000 and the $22,200 in taxes and see how much more we have to pay. Subtracting those two 'fees' (which that 30K family doesn't have) and suddenly 90,000 is down to $52,800.

So I'm confused as to why I spent all those years in college, went WAY into debt... all so I could have Obama do whatever he can to have everything even out? I get families making in the $30k range can't afford what I can, but don't you find it ridiculous that a family like that gets a lot of things free... pay no tax... or very little and get Medicaid or free/next to free Obamacare. How is that fair? They should have to pay $350 a month for a family of four... then that brings the costs down for someone like me to $600 a month with a more reasonable deductible of $1,000 a person or $2,500 a family.

$20,000 for a family of four is just too much and you're going to find that many people making around the 4X range won't buy it because they can't afford it or just refuse.

Think about it... I'd have to pay $19,480 BEFORE the insurance kicks in. That's sick. Not only that, but imagine if you all of a sudden have a big hospital bill in December... and it spills into January the next year... then you might end up paying $20,000 in bills within a two month period. It's just outta control and the only people that would agree it is are people paying low amounts for their new care.

I too am a small business owner. Too small for group coverage. I assume you and your wife are going without insurance now. That's where you and I differ. I didn't work hard building a business and nest egg for my retirement to have it all end up in the hands of the medical community should some unforeseen event happen. I value the benefit of insurance. If you and your wife don't value that benefit then pay the penalty and go to the ER as needed.

"If you aren't a shill (which I'm not) and if you are whining so muc, then why don't you just buy private health insurance?"
Because for small businesses the prices have been too much before Obamacare and they'll be even more after Obamacare (for us). I've always had a problem with the costs for small business owners... we have to pay 3 and 4 times what people do working for big employers. It's one of the biggest problems which they still haven't addressed.

"Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that the people you need health care and appreciate the Affordable Care Act it shouldn't be happy."
I'll try and follow that sentence, although it's not easy. So you're saying just because I don't like it, I shouldn't rain on the parade of the others (the 6 out of 10 Americans) that will get health care for free or under $100 a month with subsidies.

You know... what I find funny is how people that are getting this care for so little (the same care I'm going to end up paying $20,000 a year for) can't understand why people like me are bitter about this. Don't rain on my parade by telling us we should love Obamacare... a plan to reduce what I make to make it more even with someone that didn't go to college as long as I did or have the college repayment I will have for the next 30 years. Consider this... when I went to college for eight years, how much money do you think I was making then? So for those years, I was making next to nothing, borrowing a bunch of money, all so I could have a better life. Now here comes Obama with his master plan of having me pay $20,000 for something 6 out of 10 Americans are going to get for free. All the while I'm paying $22,200 in taxes while they're paying nothing or next to nother there too.

Yeah... that's fair.

And then you wonder why people in the same category as me are bitter.

have you been in hospital for anything major in the past couple of years? That $20,000 would get you two days of care (the room/the docs/the meds/the tests). Without insurance anything really serious will simply bankrupt your family.

I find it hard to fathom why Americans don't get behind the opportunity to be insured.

<shrug>

Yep

Two nights in the hospital for a TIA totaled $26,000 in hosp bills alone. Dr's, labs, other tests added another 10K.

Well the problem is we that we really can't afford the insurance... it was just too much. This is a 2nd career for us. We don't have a nest-egg. We need to get saving and we really haven't been able to save squat.

Back when you were saving money, costs weren't as ridiculous as they are now. Everything is so much more expensive. Think back... did you spend $1,800 on cable or $1,800 a year on smart phones? Sure, we don't need those things... but it's things we've all become use to. Even if we lowered our cell phones to regular phones, it wouldn't save us that much... the price is like a $10 a month difference per phone.

When I add our costs up... automatic things that we must pay... I could easily come up with $75 to $80K. Yeah, we could cut and shave costs here and there. We could trade in our newer car for a clunker that might not start. I just find it insane that health care prices are so high for people with their own businesses and people with good paying jobs at places like hospitals get rates 1/3 and 1/4 the price.

It's not that I don't want the insurance... it's just too much... either way. The difference now is it's going to be higher, maybe $5,000 or so a year AND it's now forced down our throats... we HAVE TO BUY IT or pay a fine. How is me paying a fine going to help me? This year it's only $900... next year it will be $2,000 plus. Where does it end?

And ehBeth... let's find out... how much are you going to pay for your insurance... premiums and deductibles.

Like $20,000 is nothing in fees.

And duh... I understand hospital costs are ridiculous and out of control, but how much do you think a family of four making $89,346 is suppose to be able to pay towards just one bill... health insurance? Obviously $20,000 is nothing in your eyes. So when should I start getting worried... when the cost is $30,000... $40,000? Maybe I should just consult you as to when healthcare costs are too much for my family to pay. Interestingly enough, the people with your stance are all too often getting their coverage for free or nearly free.

Before "Obamacare", how have you been paying for health insurance?

Do you really think that going without health insurance is a preferable option? I don't. I have private health insurance. My premiums are higher when people without health insurance need emergency care.

Preventative care is much less expensive than emergency care. This is one of the reasons that getting more people insurance (that will pay for regular doctor visits) benefits everyone.

It all comes down to priorities. If your priorities are to give your family 200 cable channels and a data package on your phones then that's where your priorities lie. They're different than mine, but I've had enough experience with needing medical care that I know how quickly it can add up. If you choose to role the dice on paying the fine for not having medical care then that's the choice you're making. I get that the individual mandate is a pill you're being told to swallow, but, seriously it's one the one best taken.

You don't have a substantial nest egg to fall back on apparently. What the hell are you going to do if you or own of your loved ones gets sick or in an accident?

Maxdancona... how much do you make... how much do you pay for insurance... premiums and deductibles? Are you costs going up?

I have found often from site to site across the internet that the people opposing me are paying very little or nothing for their care.

At some point it's too much.
You can sit here and tell me how it's important and it's a must. But even you would have a breaking point where there's a point you say it's too much. What if you were making $90,000 for a family of four (like me) and suddenly next year the prices spike to $40,000 for the premiums and deductibles. Are you going to sit there and say... Hey... that's a great deal. You know in a week you could be charged $250,000 if you had a heart attack and had to have surgery.

$20,000 is TOO MUCH.

Remember Obama saying something about 9.5%... insurance costs are not going to be more than 9.5% of your income. I guess he was only talking about the premiums. As long as you don't use the healthcare at all (which you paid nearly $10,000) you won't incur any more than a 9.5% rate compared to income. We didn't say anything about a $10,000 plus deductible though.

Let me ask you... would you be thrilled if tomorrow your rates for your car insurance doubled or tripled? Of course you wouldn't, but I wouldn't be sitting here telling you... Hey! You need that, it's a good deal... car insurance for $350 a month... you could get in an accident, hit an oil truck and blow up a house worth $250,000.

Nobody's saying these things aren't what you need... I'm just saying the price is getting way up there. Especially when you consider a family of four in the 30,ooo's (making a 1/3 of what I'm making) doesn't have to pay $37,000 plus in taxes and insurance rates that I have to.

the people with money on the line generally dont agree with you, the conventional wisdom of the financial markets and those who operate healthcare companies is that obamacare will result in more healthcare being consumed, and since nothing has been done about costs this will result in more costs. The "affordable" part of obamacare refers to the cost to the user, not the nation, as the nations healthcare costs are sky high and are going much higher.

"You don't have a substantial nest egg to fall back on apparently. What the hell are you going to do if you or own of your loved ones gets sick or in an accident?"

You know... we could probably shave off $20,000 in stuff we don't need. We could really tighten the belt and not go out shopping. Stay home... do things at a park. Quit the gym. Get rid of our cell phones. We could do that. IF we did do that, and stopped doing everything and saved enough to pay for Obamacare... we STILL wouldn't have any money to save. Right now without paying for Obamacare we barely have money to save. If we really tightened the belt... yeah, we could pay for Obamacare... we would have nothing extra anymore. Again again, it would take everything away from any savings plan... for retirement or college for our children.

So let's see... strip down our lifes so we can pay for the crappiest Obama plan that costs us $20,000 a year AND have nothing left to save. Or reduce some of our costs, save $10,000 a year and maybe use $3,000 or so a year for catastrophic insurance. That might be the better option.

sure, but the average american next year will consume $8.900 worth of healthcare.....$20k is a lot less than $36k. if we want to spend less then we need to use less, simple as that.

I really believe the bulk of the people that get upset with my posts aren't people that are in the same situation as me... but people that love Obama and his Obamacare because they are benefiting from it.

Let's get something straight, we aren't all benefiting from it. And just because you think having insurance vs not having insurance is a smart thing doesn't mean I can't question the costs to my family.

Don't get stupid... I know how much the hospital charges... which is supposedly going to come down when more and more people have insurance (I don't buy it though). Who can imagine the hospitals saying... Hey... we were charging $1,700 for an ER trip. But now that so many people have insurance (and most will be paid for now) we're going to be more fair and give a reasonable price of only $500. Who really in their right mind think that's going to happen? I don't for a second. But the hospitals will have you believe their out-of-this-world pricing has to do with 'the other guy' not paying his bill. Until I see the prices reduce, I won't believe it. Just like I don't believe the words coming out of Obama's mouth. (Now let's see the anger come out... after I talked about your 'messiah'.

who's going to believe it?

people who live in countries where that did happen.

~~~

maybe Americans are greedier than other humans and it won't happen there. I hope that isn't the case and I don't think that little of Americans as a group.