Obamacare... 'Affordable'???

re glitch:

They walk around with smartphones because they cost the same as or less than a landline, and they've cut their landline, and you never bitched when they had landlines, because you didn't see them using them. Why don't you cut your landline and save some money yourself--you're really getting silly here.

remember, you're dealing with the PRIVATE insurance companies here, same as before, because the Republicans refused to go along with a private mandate in any sort of Obamacare. And the insurance companies have always whipsawed the public. The NYT just ran a series comparing costs for common surgical and medical procedures in the US and in countries that had single=payer systems, i.e. every major modern country except the US, and we ended up paying 4 or 5 or 6 times as much for the same procedure as all the other countries that had government-regulated plans. Don't blame Obamacare, blame the politicians and the conservatives that refuse to consider a rational MODERN health care system that costs half what our private health mess costs per capita.

No one suggests that 20K a year is reasonable, but recent experience suggests that in states like California which have been testing the waters, premium costs are coming in less than they have been in unregulated private insurance plans.

And do a little research on what's likely to happen if you DON'T carry insurance. That's what people have been trying to tell you--they're not saying you should be happy with $20K, but that if you don't have insurance you can get far more badly screwed than you think. Have you read those accounts of people with common problems like heart attacks or major surgery who end up with bills like 200,000 dollars? That's what you're risking. Remember, 60% of personal bankruptcies in America are caused by people who run into catastrophic healt care emergency costs, for themselves, or their children, or their parents or relatives. And 60% of those are people who have PRIVATE health insurance, which can cut you off for pre-existing conditions, or if you exceed their caps, or if it looks like you've developed something that's going to cost them a huge amount of money they terminate your policy. Those are some of the kinds of insurance screwing that Obamacare outlaws.

Glitch, my total tax liability runs about 40% of my income. I get it. Honest.

You have a decision to make. I assume you have other voluntary or mandated insurances to cover your car, house, life. It's $ that you hope you'll never have to fall back on.

I get it could cost a fortune with a medical event. But that's the same that's true for car insurance. That's why so many people pay into it... so the costs are lower. I just have a hard time believing somehow the hospitals are going to suddenly lower they costs drastically. I refuse to believe that. They might lower it slightly... MABYE... even that would surprise me. But it won't be significant and it should be because they are WAY OVER priced.

Just for example... when my wife was pregnant a couple years ago we went to get a blood test at the hospital. We didn't have insurance but were told that the hospital had a discount program for blood tests so we went. When my wife had just about finished her paperwork and was ready to be taken back they told her... Oh, we don't have that program anymore... it ended last month. I said... that's okay... how much can three or four vials of blood cost? $250... $300... $350 max? We were there five minutes... maybe. A tech that makes about $15 an hour spent five minutes with us. Then they have to send it out. Someone puts it in a machine for 20 minutes... then they look at the results. At the most the hospital's cost couldn't be more than $50 to $100... and that's pushing it. I get they are there for a profit... but the cost was $770.

REALLY? $770 for blood tests? The AIDS test alone was $150... a test that many places perform for free.

The real issue that needs to be addressed is the price gouging of the hospitals. Until that's addressed, nothing is going to work well. I saw a couple of recent stories of people having heart attacks or strokes and getting charged over $500,000 for being in the hospital less than a month. WHY? Wouldn't you really love to know what the true cost was to the hospital? Maybe it was $20,000 in nurse and doctors fees? $50,000? Do they really need to profit that much? That's where the problem is.

"The real issue that needs to be addressed is the price gouging of the hospitals. Until that's addressed, nothing is going to work well. "



now you are talking sense...

(but fighting against corporate money)

Did anyone say the system wasn't rigged? My $26,000 bill ultimately got reduced to less than $1K after fights with both the hospital and insurance companies. Fair? Hell, no. Worth the numerous times that someone told me not to worry my pretty little head? HAH! You have no idea.

Hospitals aren't suddenly going to lower costs. No one is pretending otherwise. My personal preference (even as a small l libertarian) is that we'll eventually end up with a single payer plan that covers everyone within that tax burden.

Gotta close on this, but I do feel for your position.

Well look.. your first words to me was that I was drastically misinformed.

No... I'm not misinformed at all. So, because you said that... I would have to assume that you think the numbers I gave you are assine? Think about making $89,346 because you went to college for eight years (8 years where you didn't even have an income)... and then think about $22,200 in taxes and possibly $20,000 in healthcare (before they even pay anything). Then you find out the guy working at the mall (with no college education) has a smart phone while you can't afford one because he has no taxes to pay. He got a refund and bought a smart phone with it. Then you ask him about his new Obamacare and he said... yeah... I get that for free too... it's SWEET.

I mean... really... and I'm suppose to be happy about it?

he has yet to pay for college, or a wife, or multiple children, and the whole country is going downhill fast.

I'd wish him good luck...

one might should be careful thinking they know what other folks's shoes should feel like.

Let me close by saying... this isn't about a smart phone. It's not about a car.

It's about Obama redistributing wealth. I don't like it.

How many things free do people need?

Let's list the things that people making less than $25 to 30K (with a family):
FREE or subsidized housing (Section 8)
FREE food EBT / Foodstamps
FREE health care / medicaid / Obamacare premiums with big subsidies
FREE money / Welfare system
FREE child care... Child care can cost $500 to $700 a month per child
Income Tax credits... of thousands of dollars per child for single parents

I mean... where's the incentive to work? To better yourself when you get so much stuff for free and others have to pay so much more to make up for your lacking???

Enough of the entitlement age.

You want to help people out less fortunate. Fine... they make under $20,000... give them ALL the taxes they paid into the system back to them. But don't give them a dime more. Doing so is basically the same as taking taxes another paid and give it away.

Wake up Americans... we're 17 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt for a reason.

Entitlements are a big part of why.

Good night.

we're 17 TRILLION DOLLARS in debt for a reason.


Iraq.


Afghanistan.


bank bailouts...





g'nite johnboy.

The two wars are right under $2 Trillion... bank bailouts... that wouldn't touch a trillion. There are many other reasons why... entitlements is a huge one.

kill the poor...

Ah, and therein lies your (misplaced, imo) gripe.

Goodnight.

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on their own. Nobody. You built a factory out there—good for you. But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that marauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory....Now look. You built a factory and it turned into something terrific or a great idea—God bless! Keep a hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”— elizabeth warren, September 2011.

I do have a question... is everyone on this site an Obama supporter?

I only assume this because anyone that's paying a lot more (because their making more money) can't possible be sitting here saying YEAH BABY!!! Obamacare rules!

If you are going to finally get insurance because you can finally afford it because it's free or clost to it... I get it... you're happy.

So why can't you get I'm not happy and I'm not an Obama supporter because my costs are 1) going up and 2) being forced on me?

Again, I admit I didn't have insurance before this because it was too expensive then (estimates were around $13,000 to $15,000). I'm sorry, but I've got a ton of bills and even that's too much. But to have the costs go up about $5,000 after Obama was saying... Hey, everyone's going to experience lower prices (other than a very small percentage of people)... of course I'm not thrilled.

it won't be free, but I can finally maybe actually get insurance.

people like you that made enough money to have insurance but chose not to are part of the problem...

I thought you were going to bed.

there are a few Tea Party members here, but they are a loud and vocal minority with little in the way of manners.

we'll see if maybe a resemblance pops out...

Wait a minute... wait a minute. I pay my taxes.

You know what would be the fairest thing... which would make your statement a better statement? If EVERYONE paid taxes... the same percent. If everyone paid their fair share. The problem is 47% of the people aren't paying federal taxes. That's almost every other person that's not paying taxes.

Why shouldn't we all pay our share?

I don't agree with a lot of things about Russia... but I do agree with their tax structure. Everyone pays 13%. Now that's fair. The poor pay something. The rich pay more... much more... but it's all the same percentage. Why should you get charged a higher percentage when you are already giving much more because you make more?

maybe you just don't understand the pre-existing condition thing.

or maybe it doesn't affect you so you don't give a ****, I don't know.

a lot of TPers I've met mostly care about themselves.

nitey nite...

(enjoy your time in russia, ya here?)

the same percent is bullshit.

you are starting to flame out here...

You poor misunderstood man. Why can't these people get it that you object to having a 10k out of pocket allowance from an insurance policy that you will probably never reach unless you have a major medical event, yet don't have any problem rolling the dice without insurance and having to pay 100s of thousands that the insurance policy would have covered with premiums paid into the pool by the rest of us.