Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

How about we jail any liberal that commits any crime for 4 years?

Would you agree to that Parados?

DrewDad wrote:

The suggestion that we need "more good guys with guns"(Actual argument by LaPierre) is like suggesting the Titanic should hit another iceberg, but on the other side of the ship.(Analogy that attempts to refute LaPierre's argument)

The suggestion that we should ban guns in America (Drew Dad never made such an argument so the straw man basis)is like suggesting ships should be banned from sailing the seas after the Titanic crashed into an iceberg and sank.(The analogy attempts to refute an argument never made so completes the strawman fallacy.)

Two firefighters shot dead in upstate New York
By Catherine E. Shoichet and Chuck Johnston, CNN
Mon December 24, 2012

(CNN) -- At least two firefighters were shot and killed at the scene of a fire that engulfed multiple houses in upstate New York on Monday, police said.

Doctors treated two other firefighters for gunshot wounds, police in Webster, New York, told reporters.

Authorities believe one or more shooters took aim at the firefighters after they left their vehicles, Police Chief Gerald Pickering said.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo described it as a "horrific shooting" and a "senseless act of violence."

"Volunteer firefighters and police officers were injured and two were taken from us as they once again answered the call of duty," he said in a statement.

It was unclear whether there were any suspects.

"We have different individuals that were possible people with knowledge, but at this point I can't really comment," Monroe County Sheriff Patrick O'Flynn told reporters.

For hours, the gunfire stopped firefighters from working to extinguish the flames and forced police SWAT teams to evacuate homes in the area.

Firefighters first arrived before 6 a.m., said Rob Boutillier, Webster's fire marshal. By 9 a.m., flames had engulfed three houses and a vehicle, he said.

"It's still an active crime scene," Pickering said. "We have firefighters there at the location. It took a while to make it safe ... to put out the fires."

Doctors were treating the wounded firefighters Monday morning, said Teri D'Agostino, a spokeswoman for Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, New York. They were in guarded condition, she said.

One firefighter escaped from the scene in his own vehicle about an hour after he was shot, then was taken to the hospital by an ambulance from another location, Boutillier said.

Another wounded firefighter was conscious and speaking when he was removed from the scene, Boutillier said.

The shooting comes amid a renewed debate over gun control in the United States after a gunman killed 26 people at a Connecticut elementary school earlier this month.

President Barack Obama has set a January deadline for "concrete proposals" to deal with gun violence.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, has said she will introduce legislation to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. The White House has said that the president supports that effort.

Speaking to reporters on Friday, the National Rifle Association's president called for more guns in the wake of the mass shooting, proposing putting an armed guard in every U.S. school in order to protect children.

On Sunday, NRA President Wayne LaPierre told NBC's "Meet the Press" that he would not express support for any new gun restrictions, saying most gun laws on the books are currently rarely enforced.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-firefighters-shooting/?hpt=us_c1

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo described it as a "horrific shooting" and a "senseless act of violence."

...my question about whether AR-15s..

Notice the silence for my question about whether AR-15s are manufactured in the US or just assembled or simply distributed.

The suspected assailant also died at the scene, the Webster police chief, Gerald L. Pickering said, though it was unclear if he was killed by a self-inflicted gunshot or by the authorities.

“It does appear that it was a trap that was set,” Chief Pickering said of the blaze that drew the firefighters. “Causative reasons, we don’t have at this time.”

One of the firefighters was “able to flee the scene on his own,'’ he added. “The other three were pinned down at the location.”

Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester said two firefighters were in “guarded condition.” The two others died at the scene, Chief Pickering said.

The firefighters were from the West Webster Fire Department, about four miles from the blaze, and were believed to be volunteers.

As he recited the names of the four firefighters at a news conference on Monday morning, Chief Pickering repeatedly choked up. One of the deceased, Michael J. Chiapperini, was a police lieutenant in the Webster Police Department.

“These people get up in the middle of the night to go put out fires,” he said. “They don’t expect to be shot and killed.”

An off-duty police officer from Greece, N.Y., who happened to be driving by and stopped to help suffered shrapnel wounds from the shooting, Chief Pickering added.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/25/nyregion/2-firefighters-killed-in-western-new-york.html?hp

The NRA and supporters of guns have no common sense.

oralloy wrote:

If someone were suspicious, the guard could issue a challenge and demand that the suspicious person comply with his orders.

If the intruder were armed and intent on murder, and the guard issued such a challenge, the smart money would not be on the guard in that situation imho.