Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@Walter Hinteler,

You guys are making up worst case scenarios with some idea that there would be a friendly fire battle. I beleive that this is a regretful but necessary part of a way to ratchet down these events.

Anything else, why not just have targets on the kids backs? Its amazing how we are quick to address anyone who doesnt think like us as "clowns". You are not facing any reality by maintaining that "purity of essence" when it comes to a gun-free world. It aint going to happen soon in the US.

Gun control is going to be a long long battle in court and congress, so waht do we do in the meantime, just passively twiddle our thumbs and wait for the cops to come and identify the bodies of the next massacre?
A school invasion and massacre may be over before the cops even get rolling, so, like it or not the schools had better be better designed to repel invasion and there had better be some designated gun carriers with training to take on the terrorists.

SUch tactics can only be implemented in a stopgap fashion until we can have some real meaningful gun control,(Whish may take two generations, but we need to tart somewhere)

You guys are just the other side of the ticket from Wayne Lapierre. He wants armed guards ONLY and You want gun control ONLY. I dont buy either sole-system approach

I have no idea what should be done in a, say, shopping mall or a theater. Designing a school for a defensive lock down is much more easily accomplished (We havent done it yet, we seem to enjoy these useless debates, where we talk and talk while kids keep being buried, Hell, most school boards havent even addressed the issue)

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

The police show up, to find the place crawling with clowns with guns . . .

Then the police would likely shout that the first clown that continues to fire his/her weapon will be shot at by the police.

Society has this problem in many arenas; how to sort out the proverbial clowns. Businesses have it; organized religions have it; institutions have it. Clowns are endemic practically everywhere people have an organization. The important point is how to limit the tragedy amongst the non-clowns. In effect, all jobs usually have a physical/mental downside. Like nursing may have burnout for those in emergency rooms; taxi drivers can have problems due to sitting all day, etc., etc. In an earlier time, it was always accepted as the price to pay for having any job. It was referred to as an "occupational hazard."

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

The NRA has called for armed guards in schools.

Makes sense.

As it is the only action possible that will greatly increased the safety of children in schools it was not a hard action to predict and one I had also stated should be done before the NRA statement.

One thing I know a so call ban on assault rifles will have zero impact on children safety and a limit on mags size at best a of very minor benefits

1 Reply

@McTag,

McTag wrote:

To develop the "Gunfight" theme beloved by the NRA and other deluded individuals, when the police arrive and the "good guys" are loosing off at the "bad guys" and receiving fire, how will they begin to sort it out? Who do they shoot?

If they are doing self-defense the way they are supposed to, they are only firing on the bad guy when the bad guy is directly attacking them or their family. They won't be playing hero to try to go save other unarmed people.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Quite apart from that, the mere possession of a gun does not mean that the person concerned will know how to use it effectively, or do so under the pressure of events.

If they have a concealed carry permit, hopefully that involved a bit of required training.

But regardless, you don't have a choice. Not only does the US Constitution protect the right of Americans to carry handguns when they go about in public, but the US Supreme Court is within a year or two of issuing a ruling that enforces that right, even for people in our largest cities.

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@McTag,

Quote:

the NRA and other deluded individuals, when the police arrive and the "good guys" are loosing off at the "bad guys" and receiving fire, how will they begin to sort it out? Who do they shoot?

Nonsense the police used uncover cops and so the used of passwords to be shouted out is one solution and of course with teachers you can placed a badge to hang around the neck in the same locked box as the gun in the schools and so on.

Friendly fire is still a risk but it is a small one that had been deal with for generations now.

1 Reply

@McTag,

Re: H2O MAN (Post 5202710)

Quote:

That golden shower on your face means it's windy.

Quote:

Pissing in the wind, is it?

You are.

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@Val Killmore,

Val Killmore wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:

@all

Look at Huffpost on the anti gun propaganda.
This is a country of OVER 300 MILLION PEOPLE! You could collect headlines like that of murder incidents by objects other than guns over a series of a week from our nation. People who are actually persuaded by stories like this when they weren't previously persuaded are pretty gullible people.

I challenge you to come up with a list to rival that one.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I thumb up farmerman's posts every chance I get because I consider that his arguments mirror the stance I am taking here.

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@farmerman,

Disbelief in some quarters after NRA calls for armed guards at every school, blames movies

Quote:

"The last thing we need are the George Zimmermans of the world patrolling our schools," said Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, referring to the neighborhood watch volunteer charged with killing unarmed teen Trayvon Martin in Florida.

Rap

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@farmerman,

Quote:

A school invasion and massacre may be over before the cops even get rolling, so, like it or not the schools had better be better designed to repel invasion and there had better be some designated gun carriers with training to take on the terrorists.

Such tactics can only be implemented in a stopgap fashion until we can have some real meaningful gun control,(Which may take two generations, but we need to tart somewhere)

You guys are just the other side of the ticket from Wayne Lapierre. He wants armed guards ONLY and You want gun control ONLY. I dont buy either sole-system approach...

Armed guards might be better than nothing but there's a problem in that such a guard would have no real skin in the game. I'd rather have somebody who could be counted on to lay his or her own life down to protect the children, and that means teachers and/or parents trained in the use of firearms, with pistols, and possibly with one or two rifles in the school, locked up, with the designated teachers and/or parents having the key.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

A teacxher armed may have other duties to distract him or her at a very critical time. I guess I can be convinced either way as to WHO should be armed and patrolling.
I believe that the mere posted information that a school is under "protection by armed guards trained in "active" intervention" and that these folks are permitted to use "DEADLY FORCE" is going to have some positive results and will limit the slaughers for that particular school.

Weve spent over a trillion on HOMELAND DEFENSE and weve actually defunded much of the CDC's mission in school and public area safety.

I still want some good gun control. I will, in a personal spirit of compromise state that, as a start, I would support a big magazine ban on all of these new guns AND a call back (no grandfathering) of existing and inventoried guns with the ability to take those big clips.

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@farmerman,

Sandy Hook was a "gun free zone". Thats like sending a message that
"Should anyone attack this school, we warn you that we shall throw pencils and erasers at you"

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@farmerman,

Quote:

where we talk and talk while kids keep being buried,

Your "concern" rings hollow, Farmer. You don't even have the human decency to talk about the half million Iraqi kids who were buried in the 1990s or the hundreds of thousands after Bush's illegal invasion.

Why not stop the pretense? What is the difference between you and H2oman or Oralloy?

Quote:

Hell, most school boards havent even addressed the issue)

Neither have you. Despite your hollow claims that you are an academic willing to review the facts. Kids are kids the world over.

But you don't give a **** about foreign brown skinned children. You live by the motto, "My country wrong or wrong or wrong or wrong or wrong or ... .

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@Setanta,

Well, the "good guys" will be wearing white hats, and the "bad guys" will be wearing black hats.

Everyone knows that.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I still want some good gun control. I will, in a personal spirit of compromise state that, as a start, I would support a big magazine ban on all of these new guns AND a call back (no grandfathering) of existing and inventoried guns with the ability to take those big clips....

Question is, what if anything would you or any democrats be willing to give or trade for that??

For absolute starters, I would want some iron-clad guarantee that no psychically damaged person(s) would ever get close to the whitehouse again i.e. minimally that any candidate for POTUS would have to have the same top-secret security clearance which you'd need for any meaningful job in the Pentagon. That would certainly eliminate the last several dem candidates from consideration.

The rifles with the hi-cap mags mainly serve the purpose of satisfying the first priority behind the 2'nd amendment i.e. providing a bulwark against government itself. You'd have to do a very good job of convincing people that government posed no further danger beyond some point in time.

1 Reply

@gungasnake,

Tag: Less Guns - Less Deaths

Smile

1 Reply

@farmerman,

The suggestion that we need "more good guys with guns" is like suggesting the Titanic should hit another iceberg, but on the other side of the ship.

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@farmerman,

I don't believe teachers should be armed; this scenario only enforces the idea to the children that they are not safe. Some children frighten easily, and we wouldn't know what kind of harm it's doing to any child.

I prefer a safety officer who is trained with guns to protect the children. Also, a fenced school area is a good barrier for anybody thinking about harming any children.

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@JTT,

Quote:

Tag: Less Guns - Less Deaths

That's not even good English ("less" pertains to a continuum), try

"fewer guns, fewer deaths"...

2 Replies

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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