64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 08:33 pm
@JTT,
@all
https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/14588_10151184035026130_1817595408_n.png
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 08:37 pm
@H2O MAN,
I stand by my contention that gun ownership has been declining. I can cite sources. But you can supply data to the contrary (eg number of background checks performed by the FBI).
The gun industry (and the NRA) has steadfastly refused to disclose what would be the definitive data.








hingehead
 
  3  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 08:55 pm
@realjohnboy,
@all

Doing the rounds

Q: How many NRA spokesmen does it take to change a light bulb?

A: More guns!
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 08:58 pm

Q: Why are Freedom Haters unable to "reply all"?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:00 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
I stand by my contention that gun ownership has been declining. I can cite sources. But you can supply data to the contrary (eg number of background checks performed by the FBI).
The gun industry (and the NRA) has steadfastly refused to disclose what would be the definitive data.


I'm not sure why either would even have definite data.

I recall hearing that polling data shows that while the number of gun owners has declined a bit, the remaining gun owners have increased the number of guns they own.

And I don't think the decline was supposed to be some sort of continuous thing. More like the levels dropped, then stabilized at a new level.
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:06 pm
@hingehead,
@ reply all

Quote:
December 21, 2012
The N.R.A. Crawls From Its Hidey Hole

Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association, would have been better advised to remain wherever he had been hiding after the Newtown, Conn., massacre, rather than appear at a news conference on Friday. No one seriously believed the N.R.A. when it said it would contribute something “meaningful” to the discussion about gun violence. The organization’s very existence is predicated on the nation being torn in half over guns. Still, we were stunned by Mr. LaPierre’s mendacious, delusional, almost deranged rant.

Mr. LaPierre looked wild-eyed at times as he said the killing was the fault of the media, songwriters and singers and the people who listen to them, movie and TV scriptwriters and the people who watch their work, advocates of gun control, video game makers and video game players.

The N.R.A., which devotes itself to destroying compromise on guns, is blameless. So are unscrupulous and unlicensed dealers who sell guns to criminals, and gun makers who bankroll Mr. LaPierre so he can help them peddle ever-more-lethal, ever-more-efficient products, and politicians who kill even modest controls over guns.

His solution to the proliferation of guns, including semiautomatic rifles designed to kill people as quickly as possible, is to put more guns in more places. Mr. LaPierre would put a police officer in every school and compel teachers and principals to become armed guards.

He wants volunteer and professional firefighters, who already risk their lives every day, to be charged with thwarting an assault by a deranged murderer. The same applies to paramedics, security guards, veterans, retired police officers. “The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun,” Mr. LaPierre said.

We cannot imagine trying to turn the principals and teachers who care for our children every day into an armed mob. And let’s be clear, civilians bristling with guns to prevent the “next Newtown” are an armed mob even with training offered up by Mr. LaPierre. Any town officials or school principal who take up the N.R.A. on that offer should be fired.

Mr. LaPierre said the Newtown killing spree “might” have been averted if the killer had been confronted by an armed security guard. It’s far more likely that there would have been a dead armed security guard — just as there would have been even more carnage if civilians had started firing weapons in the Aurora movie theater.

In the 62 mass-murder cases over 30 years examined recently by the magazine Mother Jones, not one was stopped by an armed civilian. We have known for many years that a sheriff’s deputy was at Columbine High School in 1999 and fired at one of the two killers while 11 of their 13 victims were still alive. He missed four times.

People like Mr. LaPierre want us to believe that civilians can be trained to use lethal force with cold precision in moments of fear and crisis. That requires a willful ignorance about the facts. Police officers know that firing a weapon is a huge risk; that’s why they avoid doing it. In August, New York City police officers opened fire on a gunman outside the Empire State Building. They killed him and wounded nine bystanders.

Mr. LaPierre said the news media call the semiautomatic weapon used in Newtown a machine gun, claim that it’s a military weapon and that it fires the most powerful ammunition available. That’s not true. What is true is that there is a growing call in America for stricter gun control.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/22/opinion/the-nra-crawls-from-its-hidey-hole.html?hp


And Mr LaPierre's statement may make that call for stricter gun control even louder.
realjohnboy
 
  3  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:14 pm
@oralloy,
I think H2O's comment about gun sales surging under Obama is spurious.
But I think you may be correct in noting that...
oralloy wrote:


I recall hearing that polling data shows that while the number of gun owners has declined a bit, the remaining gun owners have increased the number of guns they own.

And that might be why the gun industry declines to release gun sales totals.
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:33 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
And Mr LaPierre's statement may make that call for stricter gun control even louder.


That's what earplugs are for. Be as irrelevantly noisy as you like.

In the unlikely event that you get your unconstitutional monstrosity past the NRA, you will not get it past the US Supreme Court.

And go ahead and enrage NRA voters by trying to maliciously violate their rights for no reason. See what happens on election day.
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:36 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:
I think H2O's comment about gun sales surging under Obama is spurious.


Have you seen ammo magazine sales this past week?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:39 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
In the unlikely event that you get your unconstitutional monstrosity past the NRA,


That's called democracy, Oralboy. With so much NRA semen pouring down your throat, you're having a hard time keeping your American propaganda straight.

What is it in your makeup that causes you to be so prone to accepting lies as truths?
0 Replies
 
thack45
 
  4  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:41 pm
olleroy or whatever says...
Quote:


Q: Why are Freedom Haters unable to "reply all"?



whadaya know. i like freedom
firefly
 
  3  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:46 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:

In the unlikely event that you get your unconstitutional monstrosity past the NRA, you will not get it past the US Supreme Court.


http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/W/z/4/NRA-Tipping-Point.jpg
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:56 pm
@realjohnboy,
Even if gun ownership is declining, that doesn't mean killing or maiming by guns have decreased. There isn't any lack of guns if anybody wants one.

Even after Conn, gun sales increased.

Quote:
Gun Sales Up Sharply Since Connecticut Shooting: Florida Department of Law Enforcement
NBC 6 South Florida ‎- 2 hours ago
Gun Sales Up Sharply Since Connecticut Shooting: Florida ... Gun dealers say in the week since the tragedy in Connecticut, gun sales have increased. ... 18 – four days after the mass shooting in Newtown, Connecticut – there ...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 09:59 pm
@firefly,
When do you think that same tipping point will come for the numerous war criminals and terrorists that inhabit the USA, FF?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:16 pm

Democrats Throw the Freedom Haters Under the Bus

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/21/16044004-gun-control-advocates-zero-in-on-new-tactic-banning-high-capacity-ammo-clips

Quote:
Anticipating staunch resistance from gun-rights groups to any effort to ban assault-style rifles, some pro-gun control lawmakers are instead trying to enact federal legislation outlawing high-capacity ammunition clips.

The bill’s list of co-sponsors this week grew from 113 to 135, according to a spokesman for Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., the measure’s author. In 1993, a man armed with a gun and several 15-round magazines shot and killed McCarthy’s husband, Dennis, aboard a Long Island, N.Y., commuter train. Five others also died and 25 were wounded.

“We've been here before,” McCarty said Wednesday on Capitol Hill. “All too often, we see these mass killings and yet all our lives go on. Everybody is asking: Is this time different? It is ... This time is different because there is so much anger.”

“We can get the job done,” added House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., one of the bill’s co-sponsors. In an interview Tuesday with NBC’s Andrea Mitchell, Pelosi predicted: “Right away we could pass ... the ban on the assault magazine.”


Looks like there's not going to be an assault weapons ban.

Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green
JTT
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:18 pm
@oralloy,
Perhaps you want to answer the question, Oralloy.

When do you think that same tipping point will come for the numerous war criminals and terrorists that inhabit the USA?
oralloy
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:21 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
In the unlikely event that you get your unconstitutional monstrosity past the NRA, you will not get it past the US Supreme Court.


http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/W/z/4/NRA-Tipping-Point.jpg


In your dreams. House Democrats are already abandoning all plans for an assault weapons ban, focusing instead only on high capacity magazines.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:22 pm
@oralloy,
you got the headline wrong, oralloy.

It should have read
Democrats attempt to rein in child-murder-enablers
Notice Pelosi is talking about something that could pass right away, while they slog through the mire the NRA throws out to get a comprehensive ban. This is only the first step.
raprap
 
  2  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:26 pm
@oralloy,
Oraboy you need to get your words straight iff'n you're going to WAG.

Are they "Assault - Style Rifles" or "Assault Weapons"--Semantics are important to the small minded at the NRA.

Jes trying to make my 'better's' better.

Rap
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 21 Dec, 2012 10:30 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Perhaps you want to answer the question, Oralloy.

When do you think that same tipping point will come for the numerous war criminals and terrorists that inhabit the USA?


Well, I doubt there are any terrorists, as we don't intentionally target civilians.

However, we do unfortunately have our share of war criminals. Perhaps no more than any other nation that goes to war, but that still leaves plenty.

Like I said to you in another thread a week or two ago, I would want war crimes "against" the US prosecuted just as much as war crimes "by" the US.

But that said, I'd like to see them all prosecuted.

As for your question of "when", unfortunately the answer is probably not for the foreseeable future.

They do seem to be cracking down on that guy who spree killed civilians in Afghanistan, but I don't know that there will be subsequent prosecutions for other crimes.
 

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