Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

@cicerone imposter,

Man you've gotta be joking. Nort Koreans are totally subjugated by NK government by firstly disarming its citizens with harsh laws and punishments, just so that the government can have tighter control of its citizens.

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@edgarblythe,

and those states and cities that have had very restricive gun laws were always held out as examples of "See it doesnt work"> Well these cities, like NY, are surrounded by states l;ike NY PA, NJ ,DEL,VT,CONN, NH which are very "gun friendly. You can drive over the bridge to Long Island and NYawkers can buy several semi autos (Severtal of which, including the Bushmaster, can be easily converted to full auto, with conversion kist available at gun shows (The parts are usually sold by three separate dealers so no one is being singled out as a purveyor of "conversion kits' ,"flip out tocks", or "Flash surpressors"

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

but look at how violent the world was before guns

I dont know of any semi auto muskets.

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@farmerman,

Regulation, is one thing....

But edgar's idea that ban all semi automatic is not the solution.

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@Val Killmore,

Until we learn to make better people we have to deal with the ones that are already here. In large numbers people wish to shoot people. Those of us who do not approve the wholesale slaughter of innocents do not want those people to get their hands on these weapons of mass destruction. Most are willing to let there be passed laws to that effect.

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@Val Killmore,

why not? we did it for about 10 years or so. Assault weapons are NOT for sport, they are killing machines.
Im a hunter and Id never take what is essentially an overpressured .22 caliber bullet into the field to hunt a moose. Itd piss him off <AND, whod use one of those for small game hunting??
They are just for killing people.
Hell, even the manufacturers called em assault weapons when the Bushmaster came out (AFETR THE ASSAULT WEAPON BAN SO THEY HAD TIME TO REMOVE THE PARTS THAT DEFINED EM AS ASSAULT). After a while, the manufacturers own ad guys said that its bad publicity to keep calling em "assault", call em "military style rifles".

Id love to see em banned but Id also recommend that we do away with the "Grandfather" provision that, during the last assault weapon ban kept all the existing assault weapons sold or on inventory at a gun shop as legal. Id propose a buy-back and a melt-down.

Im afraid that Were gonna have more and more of the little kid massacres because weve turned these things into media circuses and the sickos who get hard-ons by killing little kids will be in a state of passion by the potential publicity alone .

There needs to be a several axial attack on these terrorist crimes.
1.) We need better designed security in these public places;

2.) We need weapons training for school guards and maybe teachers all trained in the art of "active intervention";

3.) We need better psych rules and evaluations and means to intervene where someone may be a threat;

4.) AND we need control and removal of these weapons , gear (such as banana clips), and devestating and "cop killer" ammo.None of this stuff has any use as "defined sporting potential "

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@farmerman,

http://cmsimg.battlecreekenquirer.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=A5&Date=20121218&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=312180022&Ref=AR&MaxW=640&Border=0&Military-style-rifles-hold-allure-among-shooters

These are essentially .22 magnum bullets with a whole lotta powder behind em to jack up the muzzle velocity so the bullet can penetrate and, when so designed with soft materials and hollows, the bullet can rotate and cause devestating damage to the body. The concept is sickening what those kids felt before they died. The second amendment is gonna have to be revised by another amendment, If not now, then how many lives more do you want spent with such cold blooded determination??

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@farmerman,

semi auto muskets does not have anything to do with what I stated.
Answer this: Do you think the world was less violent before guns were invented?

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@farmerman,

Thanks for saying it better than I could, farmerman.

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@Val Killmore,

And when do you suppose our government is going to subjugate our citizens as they do in North Korea?

This year? Next Year? When?

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

Do you think the world was less violent before guns were invented?

SOunds like youre tiring of making a real debate out of this, this sounds like youre attempting to justify the kids actions based upon archeological evidence that cavemen were violent beings.

You really have gotta do better than that, and you know it.

Ill make believe you didnt post that and you get a freebie.

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@farmerman,

Its good that you structured out rules on how to minimize such horrific killing's for future references but Ammunition should have never been designed in the first place as you said "Assault weapons are not for sport, they are killing machines", its basically true although most may disagree with me but what you have said is completely true. If the law does not require to Ban assault weapons on these streets then yeah even I personally agree on those rules cause at moment this country is lacking with security in public places especially Schools, we need to reduce the risks of having our children and people around us being murdered in such a fatal ways, Its sad to see young innocent kids sadly pass away in this shooting and everywhere else in the world, my heart goes out to their families and parents. R.I.P to all the children who passed away during the school shooting's, R.I.P to the teachers who sadly passed away, R.I.P to everyone in this world who tragically died in related matters and other various way's. Always be remembered never forgotten, remember the good die young yeah and for anyone who survives through such matters is blessed from the Lord, let us all pray for everyone in this world yeah, keep positive people!

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@farmerman,

I only have a problem with your 4th statement on the list. I can compromise with a restricted magazine size, but not an entire ban.
10 years?
There was never a "semi automatic" weapon ban. There was an "assault weapon ban" that was useless and only banned "military looking" weapons and did nothing to decrease crime, it was completely useless peice of legislation.
Can you please tell me what a "semi-automtic" gun is? Because that is what Edgar suggested to ban entirely.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I do not suggest they ignore mental health, only that there is no way to reach them all. They will never know in advance who is going to go berserk in enough cases.

It's not just people who commit mass murders that are part of the problem with gun violence. Plenty of domestic family/partner homicides are due to someone going berserk with rage and having a gun handy. Alcohol and drugs are a far larger contributory factor to gun violence than mental illness.

The mental heath care system has nothing to do with this problem--the problem is the guns. The nuts who are suggesting that we should increase the number of guns in circulation, and who are encouraging more people to have them, don't realize that would just put more of them in the wrong hands.

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@Val Killmore,

Lots of bullets from approved guns equals practically no ban at all.

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

Aren't you worried that disarmament will lead to subsequent further loss of liberties. You give them an inch, they take it a mile.
You're not worried about dictatorship?

No, I don't worry about those things at all.

I'm more worried about living in a country where everyone walks around armed and ready to take the law into their own hands.

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

Can you please tell me what a "semi-automtic" gun is? Because that is what Edgar suggested to ban entirely

semi-auto means one trigger pull = one shot. ALL assault weapons sold to the public are semi auto. There are a few semi auto sport rifles but these arent of the "Assault style" . They dont carry a mega clip. SPorting guns are limited to 3 or 5 cartridges in the gun and one in the breech.

The distinction isnt worth a debate. Ill concede that there exist a few makes of semi auto sport guns, but you admit that all assault guns under this discussion are semi auto (some, like the Bushmaster 223 can be converted to full auto as I said before, that turns em into a class that the Canadians call PROHIBITED and we call "dangerous weapons" (which are prohibited without special assignment type licenses and are only useable as assigned protection by such folks as explosives carriers and Brinks (or such) transporters of precious metals, and , of course para=military (police) and DOE nuke rods, weapons, triggers , yellow and redcake, UF6, and nuke power plant guards.

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@Val Killmore,

Val Killmore wrote:

Are you serious?

Aren't you worried that disarmament will lead to subsequent further loss of liberties. You give them an inch, they take it a mile.

You're not worried about dictatorship?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Quote:

. However, in the last two decades of the century, following several high profile multiple murders and a media campaign, the Australian government co-ordinated more restrictive firearms legislation with all state governments. Australia today has arguably some of the most restrictive firearms legislation in the world.

Currently, about 5.2% of Australian adults (765,000 people)[1] own and use firearms for purposes such as hunting, controlling feral animals, collecting, and target shooting.

Quote:

Current Australian firearm laws

State laws govern the possession and use of firearms in Australia. These laws were largely aligned under the 1996 National Agreement on Firearms.

Anyone wishing to possess or use a firearm must have a Firearms Licence and, with some exceptions, be over the age of 18. Owners must have secure storage for their firearms.

Before someone can buy a firearm, he or she must obtain a Permit To Acquire. The first permit has a mandatory 28-day delay before it is first issued. In some states (e.g., Queensland, Victoria, and New South Wales), this is waived for second and subsequent firearms of the same class.

For each firearm a "Genuine Reason" must be given, relating to pest control, hunting, target shooting, or collecting. Self-defence is not accepted as a reason for issuing a license, even though it may be legal under certain circumstances to use a legally held firearm for self-defence.[2]

Each firearm in Australia must be registered to the owner by serial number. Some states allow an owner to store or borrow another person's registered firearm of the same category.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada

Quote:

Registration of firearms in Canada has been an issue since the 1930s when the registration of handguns became mandatory. Over the past few decades, legislation had become increasingly restrictive for firearm owners and from 1995 until 2012, all firearms were required to be registered. As of April 6, 2012, the registration of non-restricted firearms is no longer required in any province or territory, except for Quebec, pending litigation. Systematic auditing of firearm owners and sports is implemented and enforced in most of Central Canada,[1][2] and to a lesser extent, in Western Canada (in most cases firearm ownership regulations vary slightly in different provinces and territories, where some provinces have decided to mandate their own laws, such as the Quebec Bill 9 course, which is mandatory for all owners of restricted firearms).[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada

Quote:

It is effectively illegal to carry concealed handguns in Canada. There is a permit[7] that allows people to carry if they can prove they need to protect their lives under specific circumstances, but the permit is very rarely issued to civilians.[

Both Canada and Australia have conducted gun buybacks over the past couple of decades.

No dictatorships in sight.

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@Val Killmore,

Quote:

There was an "assault weapon ban" that was useless and only banned "military looking" weapons and did nothing to decrease crime, it was completely useless peice of legislation.

It was designed as "Useless" It , for the most part, was an idea that wasnt even tried properly. AS I SAID before, assault weapons were "GRANDFATHERED" as long as they were already in someones ownership or inventory. SO, if the weapon already existed at the effective date of the assault weapon ban, IT WAS LEGAL. Thats total politically motivated dickless BULLSHIT. So please dont say it was useless, cause the concept wasnt even tried.

Its like banning guns in New York City so you then go out to Peekskill to buy your Bushmaster, and then go down to Harrisburg to buy te sear pin, and then over to Richmond to buy the connectors, and tadaa, youve got a full auto .223 Bushmasetr, on the way back home, you stop in West Virginia and buy a banana clip.. Youre being purpoely blind to a condition that goes on in our country every fuckin day. Its a goddam shootinggallery out there and I know for a fact that the NRA "Sporting members" are in themajority, all for meaningful control, and banning of these people killer guns. Its just that the NRA, as it is now constitutd, is a lobby for the gun manufacturers, not the sportsmen. The politicians that are in favor of lax gun laws are in the pockets of the NRA and its ability for political largesse

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

You have not provided "proof" of any of the things I mentioned, Oralloy.

Liar.

Frank Apisa wrote:

I notice you faulted someone for "name calling"...but here you have called me "trash"...and have suggested that somehow you are one of my "betters."

That is uncalled for...and you really ought to get control of yourself.

No, it was entirely called for.

You have now demonstrated your dishonesty. That means that when you falsely accuse me of not telling the truth, you are falsely accusing me of your own dishonesty.

My response was appropriate for what I was responding to.

1 Reply

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

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