64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 05:57 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
Got to love our media, they were pretty much listing all the parts you need for such a bomb, the only thing missing was an order of assembly.


You got to be kidding me this is not secret information that can not be found with any internet search engine or at any library hell the show Myths Busters had a show dealing with the power of match heads including firing off a cannon ball using match heads instead of gunpowder.

Hell as a kid I remember reading an autobiography of a bomb squad guy that have all kind of similar informations.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 06:05 pm
@Baldimo,
Any damn fool with the money can buy a gun that can be converted to fully automatic in hours and buy a clip that holds 50 0r 60 rounds so your statement is more bullshit.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 06:24 pm
@RABEL222,
Sure they can convert it, but it is still illegal and could not be resold in any legal way. You realize there is no such thing as a 50 or 60 round clip. Once again someone talking about guns who knows nothing about guns.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 06:34 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Unless you have a Class III Firearms license you are not allowed to own fully automatic weapons. This is the problem with the gun debate. The anti-gunners are not honest about the current laws and how they are enforced.


Only a few states require a Class III license. Federally, what you need is to have the gun registered on a Form 4 (easier said than done of course).
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 06:36 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Hey!!! I'm semi literate. Screw all you intelligent people, its your fault the world is so screwed up.


Nonsense. We're hardly the problem.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 18 Apr, 2013 06:37 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
Any damn fool with the money can buy a gun that can be converted to fully automatic in hours


Only if they have the parts to do the conversion, have knowledge of the exact spot where the parts go (it isn't marked, and if you start cutting in the wrong spot, you ruin the gun), and have a competent gunsmith who is willing to carry out the conversion (most gunsmiths aren't all that willing to commit major federal felonies, especially for people they don't even know).
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 05:48 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Only if they have the parts to do the conversion, have knowledge of the exact spot where the parts go (it isn't marked, and if you start cutting in the wrong spot, you ruin the gun), and have a competent gunsmith who is willing to carry out the conversion (most gunsmiths aren't all that willing to commit major federal felonies, especially for people they don't even know).


Stop trying to confused the anti-gun crowd with facts as it kind of unfair to do so.

It does bring up the interesting question of how many weapons the damn fool RABEL222 would likely ruin trying to do such a conversion.

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 06:55 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

Any damn fool with the money can buy a gun that can be converted to fully automatic in hours and buy a clip that holds 50 0r 60 rounds so your statement is more bullshit.

You are a damn fool if you believe it's just that easy.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 09:21 am
@Baldimo,
I was useing guns to hunt when you were shitting your diapers, but if you want to put me down because i am not a gunsmith fine with me.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 09:25 am
@H2O MAN,
I think all you guys admitted that weapons can be bought that can be made fully automatic. What can be done usually is.
Baldimo
 
  2  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 10:57 am
@RABEL222,
Tell someone they don't know as much as they think they do about weapons isn't putting them down. If you felt put down that is your issue. You are making a BS argument plain and simple. I know a lot of people with semi-auto weapons and none of them would switch to full auto. 1st of all it is illegal as I already said plus you could ruin the weapon. I don't know any thugs or red necks who own weapons. Everyone I know is in the IT, military or police worlds and a lot of them own at least 1 weapon if not several. They are responsible people who like guns. You can't group all of the people who like guns into the same gun culture. Thugs in Chicago and not the same people I know. Just because it can be done doesn't mean that it is and in this case if it is happening then it is maybe 1% of gun owners.
BillRM
 
  2  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 12:42 pm
@Baldimo,
To say nothing of the fact that fully auto weapons are not all that useful in most situations unless you wish to put most of the rounds in the ceiling unless you are very skill in handing the weapon.

Take note that the fully auto military M-16 newer versions had been change to a three rounds bust.

Even the sub-machine gun the Thompson is known as the chopper as one method is that you aim low and to the side and then use the recoil to walk the rounds over the target.

Also the risk of perhaps overheating the firearm and cooking off the rounds therefore blowing up the weapon in your hands.
BillRM
 
  2  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 01:02 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
http://blog.robballen.com/Post/3239/gun-myths-the-easy-conversion-to-full-auto


Something that's been pissing me off lately, especially concerning the recent shootings in Oakland, is the old wives' tale that keeps being passed around like gospel that semi-automatics are easily converted to fully automatic. We hear the countless references to 'drop in conversion' kits you can buy right here on the Interweb Tubes (of course, sans an actual link that would show the kits and their availability). We're told that any yahoo with a Dremel and a #6 ball-peen hammer can take Granpa's bolt action 30.06 and turn it into a lead-belching, fully automatic machine of death.

Sorry, that's bullshit.

How easy would it be to convert a 5-speed stick shift into an automatic transmission? It can be done but it's not as easy as simply purchasing the new transmission and slapping it in. You have a different clutch system. The stick itself is completely different. Certain parts won't mate to the frame correctly and either require drilling or complex attachments to make them fit. Weaponry is the same.

Now, to be perfectly clear, I am talking about converting a firearm to automatic fire so that while the trigger is depressed it continues to fire. The key point is that when you release the trigger, it stops firing. To be fully automatic, you need to be able to control the firing sequence. Many firearms can be modified so that sometimes you can get more than one round per trigger pull. Hell, slam-firing sometimes happens on semi-autos without any modification, but that is not full auto.

In order for a firearm to repeatedly fire off rounds, there are all sorts of mechanical timings that have to happen for reliable feeding. Release the hammer too soon, it slides along the bolt as the bolt is closing and may not strike hard enough to cook off a round. Bolts or bolt carriers that aren't designed for that kind of stress may not function long enough to give you the results you want. Gas systems may not be able to bleed off fast enough. There's dozens of variables that need to be taken into consideration and simply replacing a pin isn't going to solve all of them.

It takes a machine shop to turn a firearm auto, not just a set of tools from Craftsman and a kit you got from the web. UPDATE – Ry illustrates that you can indeed get a Craftsman drill press and a kit off the Interweb Tubes and go full auto. From what I've been able to read and discern, while there are lowers that accept the kits easily, many of them still require milling to get things to work properly. So, while it's a bit easier to do than I wrote, it does not detract from the information that follows – full auto is pretty much useless as a hand held firing mode.

Yes, certain firearms can be made to fire repeatedly by filing down X, Y, and Z, but not with any regularity or safety. And a gun that shoots repeatedly when you only intend it to shoot once isn't something that's going to be accurate enough to hit the target before the muzzle decides to try to hit a cloud or the ceiling.

Which brings me to the next major point – I hope that if anyone ever does decide to take a shot at me that they do so with a fully automatic firearm.

In the Marines, the M16's we had had 3 modes : Safe – Single – Burst. Safe was no shootie, single was semi automatic (one trigger pull, one round) and burst gave three rounds before the seer would reset. Why would the military give their soldiers a firearm that only shot three rounds? Because hand held weaponry is not generally accurate in full auto firing mode. The recoil is additive and by the 3rd round, you're not generally on target. This is why most full auto firearms are either mounted or of a lower power round.

The other issue is that full auto goes through ammo like Obama goes through teleprompters. Well, maybe not that fast but considering a common 'high capacity' magazine holds 30 rounds and full auto fire can chuck out 650-700 rounds a minute, you're out of ammo in less than 3 seconds. Being that maybe the first round or two will be on target before the recoil throws you off, that's 28 rounds of 'noise' you just wasted.

What I was taught in the Marines, you used full auto for suppressive fire, not generally targeting moving items. By setting up a 'wall of lead' from a belt fed machine gun, people couldn't move past that line without being mowed down. You fixed your line of fire and then swept inwards to cause people to move into an area where people with semi's could pick them off.

When you mounted the firearm on a vehicle, you had something to absorb the recoil better and could aim just a bit more. Aircraft had even more systems that would electronically compensate for the recoil so that you could target moving items, but that type of assistance comes at a cost of weight, something the standard troop cannot carry on his back.

Full auto is a boogey man, used by the media and anti-rights bigots to 'scare the white people' into thinking that gangs are walking around carrying mini-guns, mowing down entire playgrounds like Rambo or the Terminator. You cannot convert a semi-automatic into a fully automatic any easier than you can switch a car from stick to auto transmission. It requires tools, skills, and quite a bit of work to do to make a machine that is reliable enough to do what you require.

Those who rig their guns to shoot repeatedly from time to time are not causing the amount of mayhem that requires such onerous laws that forbid civilians from owning machine guns made past 86 (as if one made in 87 would cause more problems or something). It's a lie meant to create an artificial market so that the ownership of real full autos becomes financially infeasible for the populous and nothing to do with public safety.

posted by by Robb Allen @ 3/30/2009 9:45:02 AM
Comments
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 02:41 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

I think all you guys admitted that weapons can be bought that can be made fully automatic. What can be done usually is.



It is a criminal act to convert a semi auto weapon to a full auto weapon.
Criminals are who you should focus your attention on and I'm sure you deal with many criminals.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 04:37 pm
@BillRM,
Golly! I dident know that. Thanks for the info. Could you print a manual for clods like me so when I get my fully automatic weapon I wont shoot myself in the foot?
RABEL222
 
  0  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 04:42 pm
@H2O MAN,
I have never dealt with you. So no, I have never dealt with the criminal element.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 04:44 pm
@RABEL222,


What little credibility you imagine you ever had here just went bye-bye.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 05:00 pm
@H2O MAN,
If you need criminals to stand your argument up H2O what have you got if we were all law-abiding like you and me.

Is it not a bit like proving that God doesn't exist because a priest diddled a choirboy?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 05:02 pm
@H2O MAN,
Rabel approaches the gun debate with the "When did you stop beating wife" mentality. I got the "I've been hunting since you were crapping your diapers." response and I could care less. I'm willing to bet I've been around more guns then Rabel has. I'm willing to bet I've shot more types of guns then Rabel has. Based on the stats I should have shot myself or someone else by this time in my life. I've been shooting for over 30 years and this doesn't include my time in the military. Guess what? I haven't shot anyone and I don't know anyone who has shot someone. I've used my gun for home defense (which anti-gunners claim is rare) and scared off a burglar. The problems with guns they describe are not as common as they would like people to think. Didn't Rahm Emanuel say "never let a good crises go to waste"? How is good ole' Rahm doing with the highest murder rate in the US? Those gun laws working out for him and the people of Chicago? If Chicago's gun laws worked they would be one of the safest cities in the US.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Fri 19 Apr, 2013 05:37 pm
@Baldimo,
Chicago would be a safe city if officials would enforce the existing laws, arrest criminals and prosecute them, but for some reason very little of that happens in the Windy City. Maybe police in Chicago aren't as well equipped as those in the Boston area are... talk about armed and equipped, those guy's have all the toys.
 

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