64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
Setanta
 
  0  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:18 am
@BillRM,
Listen clown, this is what you wrote:

Quote:
It was your government agents going around and doing such things as using marines to seized, in the middle of the night, the community gun power supply from Williamsburg and then trying to seized weapons from Concord that resulted in our breaking away from the mother country in the first place.


No qualifications, no "a reason." no "one of the reasons," just an unqualified assertion that it was the reason. There was no straw man.

Tediously, once again, if you can't write coherently, you've got no business trying to blame others for your failure..
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:21 am
@DrewDad,

Quote:
They don't want to be free, truly; they choose to be imprisoned by their beliefs.


This is explained quite well by this quote from Spendius' previous post.

Quote:
The NRA and its members are a sort of medieval guild in which a sense of embattlement (Obarmy is after us) and righteousness (the sacred and dogmatic nature of the 2nd) contributes to a sense of belongingness and togetherness which reduces, or is felt to reduce, modern society's alienating and isolating tendencies and its imposition of powerlessness and helplessness which the guild members feel crushed by.


It's really is a mob mentality. We need to get the same thing going with a message of some common sense.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:21 am
@BillRM,
Listen clown, this is what you wrote:

Quote:
It was your government agents going around and doing such things as using marines to seized, in the middle of the night, the community gun power supply from Williamsburg and then trying to seized weapons from Concord that resulted in our breaking away from the mother country in the first place


There's no qualification there. You didn't write that it was one of the reasons, that it was a major reason, or a minor reason--you categorically stated that those actions lead to the revolution. Again, don't blame me, or anyone else, for the stupidity of your inability to coherently post in the English language.

There was no straw man, you idiot.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:35 am
Anybody with a reasonable degree of literary comprehension would be able to deduce Bill's thought processes after some slight familiarity with his admittedly odd formulations. Harping on about his language usage is quite beside the point.

The key trick in reading is to use the author's words to try to discern the construction of his or her grey matter. Although the feminine case is pretty predictable because, as a wise man once said, "women are the same the world over". His saying that opened up his cranial cavity for inspection in a fairly comprehensive manner so that one might judge whether he is worth reading or not.

For myself I judged it well worth the effort of wading through many of his books if only to see how he had handled his characters in the light of his statement: in various settings from the jungle to a dinner party in a mansion and from professorial colleagues to the Khan Rassen who provides an insight into the mind of the present Head of the Military in Algeria.

Or, to put it more bluntly, what sort of company I was in when paying attention to a monologue from another time and place.

As one might expect feminists have besmirched my author's memory from one end of the land to the other and so successfully that his books are mainly consigned to the storerooms of libraries which is one way of banning them unofficially.

As for the history Bill offers, it isn't history at all. It's some ancient legends which have been mediated through many minds before arriving in his selected attention space. Do a Herman Melville on it and it becomes ridiculous.

BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:46 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
No qualifications, no "a reason." no "one of the reasons," just an unqualified assertion that it was the reason. There was no straw man
.

such things as .............imply that there was other things they was doing also fool and at the very least the statement did not limit itself or imply that they were just seizing weapons and gun powder.
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:52 am
@BillRM,
Incoherence again. There were no implication. You clearly offered that as the reason, the only reason for the revolution. There is no straw man. You posted bullshit, and now you're trying to weasel out of it. If you can't coherently post in English, you're fair game for anyone who wants to criticize you for the bullshit you post.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 10:58 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
If you can't coherently post in English


as Omsig has pointed out a few times, Bill's ability to post coherently is variable

I've resorted to "ignore" for the most part. Take him off occasionally as I do think he could be an interesting contributor - but I don't have the tolerance to translate most of his efforts.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 11:08 am
@Setanta,
An you are a dishonest straw man builder trying to find ways to change clear meanings in order to be able to attacked.

Yes somehow I was stating that a column of troops could move 500 miles or so in 24 hours that how silly you felt you needed to get.

Or trying to claimed that " such things as" somehow limited the actions to the examples given.

Why do you not man up and deal with the postings instead of seeing how many pointless games you can created out of them?
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 11:47 am
@BillRM,
Quote:

Why do you not man up and deal with the postings instead of seeing how many pointless games you can created out of them?

BILL cmon, you are the one who hs just recently posting about HOW A KNIFE IS A BETTER WEAPON THAN A GUN, or "MORE KILLINGS OF KIDS HAVE HAPPENED BY EXPLOSIVES".

You should really takesome of your own advice and stick to the topic and quit the "Billybranches" of meandering tangents
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 11:50 am
@BillRM,
The clear meaning was that the seizures, or attempts at seizures of gunpowder lead to the revolution. As always, it's no fault of anyone else that you are unable to coherently state your case in what one assumes is your native language.

You can keep that idiot "man up" **** to yourself. Why don't you "man up" and admit that you posted something stupid which you now cannot support?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 12:08 pm
@farmerman,
Where the hell did I say a knife overall is a better weapon then a gun Farmerman and more people had been killed per attacks by explosives then by firearms that is not even up for debate in the US.

In fact the 97 deaths due to gasoline in one attack is beyond what any one attack by firearms cause.

Changing meanings seems to be something you are guilty of also.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 12:18 pm
@BillRM,
there you go again!!
BillRM
 
  -1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 12:32 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
there you go again!!


Name me one attack using firearms of any type in the US that killed more people then the Oklahoma bombing or one firearm attack causing more deaths then the 97 death at an after hour club in NYC using gasoline?

Not adding them all up single attacks...........

Show one posting of mine where I had claim that over all a knife is a more deadly weapon then a gun?

Note one more time overall as not in a narrow situation that favor a knife over a gun.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 01:34 pm
Scale matters more than anything else. How often do people get killed in fires? How often do they get killed in explosions?

Quote:
In 2009, according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, 66.9% of all homicides in the United States were perpetrated using a firearm.] There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000. Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides. Of the 30,470 firearm-related deaths in the United States in 2010, 19,392 (63.6%) were suicide deaths, and 11,078 (36.4%) homicide deaths.


Source at Wikipedia

Quote:
In 1994 arson fires accounted for an estimated 560 fire deaths, 3,440 fire injuries, and $3.6 billion in property damage.


From the Federal Emergency Management Agency

I couldn't find what i considered a reliable source for killings by explosives, but one source (dubious) said the average is ten per yea.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 02:03 pm
@spendius,
Have you seen that episode of Star trek when Spock's brain gets stolen? McCoy starts to put it back, but becomes forgetful towards the end, and Spock has to guide him the rest of the way.

That's like the antithesis of BillRM's posts. He posts a load of idiotic nonsense and you think you've worked out just how stupid he is. Then he slices off another bit of brain.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 02:12 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:



In fact the 97 deaths due to gasoline in one attack is beyond what any one attack by firearms cause.

Changing meanings seems to be something you are guilty of also.

Are you referring to the NYC fire where 87 people died? (Is changing totals killed something you are guilty of?)

By the way, firearms have killed far more than 87 people in single instances.
Wounded Knee massacre killed close to 300.

Anders Behring Breivik killed 77 in Norway which is pretty close to the 87.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 02:17 pm
@Setanta,
Another list from Wikipedia: List of rampage killers

They don't know of "97 deaths due to gasoline in one attack" either ...
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 02:18 pm
@Setanta,
Once more both fire and homemade explosives had proven to be more deadly then firearms in mass killings per attack.

Most mass killers tend to be brighter then average no matter how mentally ill they are so all in all forcing such that group away from firearms to more effective means of killings would not likely be a good idea as far as the body count is concern.
parados
 
  1  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 02:20 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It's the Happy Land Fire. #8 on other notable instances.

87 dead
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 21 Jan, 2013 02:24 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Another list from Wikipedia: List of rampage killers

They don't know of 97 killed by a gasoline attack in NYC either ...


LOL footnote the figure I had seen before were 97 not 87 but what the hell 87 is still more then any firearm attack.............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

he Happy Land fire was an arson fire that killed 87 people trapped in an unlicensed social club called "Happy Land" (at 1959 Southern Boulevard) in the West Farms section of The Bronx, New York, on March 25, 1990. Most of the victims were young ethnic Hondurans celebrating Carnival.[1] Unemployed Cuban refugee Julio González, whose former girlfriend was employed at the club, was arrested shortly after and ultimately convicted of arson and murder.
Contents [hide]
1 Incident
2 Aftermath
3 References
4 External links
[edit]Incident

Before the blaze, Happy Land was ordered closed for building code violations in November 1988. Violations included no fire exits, alarms or sprinkler system. No follow-up by the fire department was documented.[2]
The evening of the fire, González had argued with his former girlfriend, Lydia Feliciano, a coat check girl at the club, urging her to quit. She claimed that she had had enough of him and wanted nothing to do with him anymore. González tried to fight back into the club but was ejected by the bouncer. He was heard to scream drunken threats in the process. González was enraged, not just because of losing Lydia, but also because he had recently lost his job at a lamp factory, was impoverished, and had virtually no companions.[citation needed] González returned to the establishment with a plastic container of gasoline which he found on the ground and had filled at a gas station. He spread the fuel on the only staircase into the club. Two matches were then used to ignite the gasoline.[citation needed]
The fire exits had been blocked to prevent people from entering without paying the cover charge. In the panic that ensued, a few people escaped by breaking a metal gate over one door.[citation needed]
González then returned home, took off his gasoline-soaked clothes and fell asleep. He was arrested the following afternoon after authorities interviewed Lydia Feliciano and learned of the previous night's argument. Once advised of his rights, he admitted to starting the blaze. A psychological examination found him to be not responsible due to mental illness or defect;[citation needed] but the jury, after deliberation, found him to be criminally responsible.
[edit]Aftermath

González was charged with 174 counts of murder—two for each victim—and was found guilty on 87 counts of arson and 87 counts of murder on August 19, 1991. For each count he received the sentence maximum of 25 years to life (a total of 4,350 years). It was the most substantial prison term ever imposed in the state of New York. He will be eligible for parole in March 2015 because New York law states that multiple murders occurring during one act will be served concurrently, rather than consecutively.[3]
The building that housed Happy Land club was managed in part by Jay Weiss, at the time the husband of actress Kathleen Turner.[4] The New Yorker quoted Turner saying that "the fire was unfortunate but could have happened at a McDonald's."[5] The building's owner, Alex DiLorenzo 3rd, and leaseholders Weiss and Morris Jaffe, were found not criminally responsible, since they had tried to close the club and evict the tenant.[6] In 1987, Weiss and Jaffe's company, Little Peach Realty Inc., leased the building space for seven years to the club owner, Elias Colon, who died in the fire.[4][7] An eviction trial against Mr. Colon had been scheduled to start on March 28.[4]
While found not criminally responsible, the city filed misdemeanor charges in February 1991 against the building owner, Mr. DiLorenzo and the landlord Mr. Weiss. These charges claimed that the owner and landlord were responsible for the building code violations caused by their tenant.[8] They both plead guilty in May 1992, agreeing to perform community service and paying $150,000 towards a community center for Hondurans in the Bronx.[9]
There was also a $5 billion dollar lawsuit filed by the victims and their families against the owner, landlord, city and some building material manufacturers. That suit was settled in July 1995 for $15.8 million or $163,000 per victim. The lower amount was due mostly to unrelated financial difficulties of the landlord, Mr. DiLorenzo.[10][11]
The street outside the former Happy Land social club (which was located on the northwest corner of Southern Boulevard and East Tremont Avenue in the Bronx) has been renamed "The Plaza of the Eighty-Seven" as a way of memorializing the victims. Five of the victims were students at nearby Theodore Roosevelt High School, which held a memorial service for the victims in April 1990. A memorial was erected directly across the street from the former establishment with the names of all 87 victims enscribed on it.
The arson was the subject of the Duran Duran song, "Sin of the City" (where the song lyrics say 89 people died, when in fact it was 87), a Joe Jackson song, "Happyland", and Tom Russell's song "A Dollar's Worth of Gasoline" from his Hurricane Season CD. It was also mentioned in the Jay-Z song, "You, Me, Him, and Her." A fictionalized version of the arson, where it was an arson intended to intimidate the Latino community, was featured on Law & Order.
[edit]References
 

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