Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

How many fatal fires occur each year? How many murders by explosives occur each year? How many killings with firearms occur each year? Do you understand the word scale? I doubt it.

Trip the wire.

I needn't have bothered.

This thread is about the American psyche. I imagine medical negligence of one sort or another beats all these other figures. Most of it unrecorded.

Are we talking about mass murders or just murders or some strange combination design to make firearms look as deadly as possible with suicides thrown in for good measure?

No, i posted and linked a source which showed more than 19,000 people intentionally killed by firearms in 2009 (suicides were listed separately). I posted and linked a source which showed 560 people killed in arson fires (i.e., intentional) in 1994. Really . . . go look up the word scale, and think about it.

If mass killers are so bright why do they choose guns over other "more effective" ways of killing?

Of course that raises the question of how many places have no sprinklers, only one entrance, and have been ordered closed by officials but still have 100 people in the place.

The Happy Land Fire was more an accident of the circumstances than it was an intent by a brilliant murderer.

The question is :
Are we in the USA safer from gunshots today than we were fifty years ago?
I (or someone) should do the research and compare percentage of gun ownership to number of gun shot wounds and gun shot deaths since 1961.

At what point do we start to realize that gun violence is both a mental health issue for the shooters and a health issue for the rest of us?


Joe(who was afraid of being shot in 1960?)Nation

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That a good question of course not all of them do so, but maybe the ones who do are listening to CNN and such just like most of us do here.

You know the media claims that a light rifle is a battlefield killing machine that should not be in civilians hands.

Anyway it is a good thing they do listen as even a change to a riot shotgun would likely push up the average body count.

I guess that explains why shotguns are the gun of choice of deer hunters.

He was a sad drunk and yet he killed 87 human beings with a few gallons of gasoline no firearm needed and in New York City or elsewhere not being up to code is hardly unknown nor are such stupid things as locking emergency exits.

That doesn't change the death count from being a happenstance from circumstances and nothing to do with the intent of the brilliant killer.

I find it rather humorous how you tell us gasoline is this fantastic killer that brilliant mass murderers should be using if they want a high body count and then you refer to the killer you bring up who used gasoline as being a "sad drunk."

You guys are pathetic. You are arguing over which methods of killing are more effective. Do you remember 27 children?

27 Children

27 Children

Were killed by a gun that's only purpose is to spray small caliber rounds at close range, which is exactly what it was used for, in a kindergarten.

The fact that there are other ways to kill people is irrelevant.

12 gauge shotguns are used in deer hunting................................mostly with rifle barrels and slugs however.

http://wesmantoddshaw.hubpages.com/hub/Twelve-Gauge-Shotguns-For-Deer-Hunting

Of course the deer is fairly large herbivore - and a very quick and alert one at that. Of course it's possible to bring down a deer with a 410 , sixteen, or twenty gauge shotgun, but it's not practical to hunt deer with those smaller gauge guns. While I appreciate that some hunters might be so skilled as to use those, I'm going to concentrate on twelve gauge guns here.

The obvious issue is that a shotgun will never provide the range, or power to kill a deer at great distances that some rifles provide. How close a hunter is able to get to his prey is mostly a matter of knowledge and skill. I believe it's more sportsman like to hunt deer with shotguns rather than rifles.

Remmington 870 Twelve Gauge With 3" Chamber and 20" rifled barrel

You Want A Rifled Barrel.
What is a rifled barrel?

In this case, it's a barrel on a shotgun that has been machined or rifled like a rifle's barrel. Most shotguns do not have rifled barrels. If you're looking to hunt something as large as a deer or hog, you don't have to have a rifled barrel shotgun - but if you intend to shoot your target from extended distances, then it certainly pays to have a shotgun with a rifled barrel.

The rifling or machine work on the inside of the barrel doesn't just effect a load containing a slug, but also keeps buckshot or any other shot in a tighter patter for longer distances. The Link that I've provided demonstrates this with outstanding visual demonstrations.

Yes, a rifled barrel shotgun will cost more than a shotgun without one. The H & R Pardner Pump twelve gauge would be the single most cost effective shotgun for someone looking to purchase their first rifled barrel shotgun at a low cost.

The H & R Pardner Pump Shotgun
The H & R Pardner Pump Shotgun.
The H & R Pardner Pump Shotgun is a tremendous value in personal hunting firearms. It's lightweight, affordable, and is the most affordable shotgun to come with a rifled barrel.
The H & R Pardner Pump Twelve Gauge Shotgun - The Best Priced Rifled Barrel Shotgun On The Market!

It's no good talking sense or common humanity to them, IRFrank, they lack the facility or the inclination to understand it.

Haven't seen Oralloy for a while, what's up? Nothing trivial, I hope?

You do realize Bill that the M-16 (AR-15) was designed to nothing more than a machine to kill humans? It wasn't made to be good for anything else. I have fired the M-16 several dozen times in just about every position you can imagine, though never in anger or in fear for my life but many, many, times while lurking through woods and swamps and snow.
When you and I have our knife against gun fight, I will pick the M-16 and this stretch of piney-swamp to meet you on....
I will sleep out and wait for you.

Joe(hint: I don't always sleep and when I do I don't always sleep on the ground.)Nation

The FBI has some good stats/charts that go back to the 1960's.

You're right of course. I forget from time to time.

If a sad drunk can killed 87 people with gasoline can your picture what someone bright enough to put this together from hardware store parts would do to a school full of children or a movie theater?



But no real need to build a flame thrower as a few Molotov cocktails would be more deadly for children trap in a small room then an assault rifle.