64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 11:43 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
So a knife Firefly would not work for some reason only a gun?

That's completely irrelevant to the issue of gun violence, and how to curb it.

Do you want Congress to help curb knife violence? Have you asked your Senators and Congressional representative to address that problem? Take your issues and concerns with knife violence--and bombings, and gasoline, and lethal golf balls--to your legislators. They don't belong in a discussion of gun violence.

Setanta
 
  3  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 11:46 am
http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/166568_447470065308932_50827685_n.jpg
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 11:51 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Nonsense as the US had always been a heavily armed society even before the US came into being.


Yeah- when the US came into being the population was 1/100th of what it is now and urban areas were the size of what we call a small market town and Indians were running loose. There were also a large number of slaves, indentured servants, women and children.

Guns were a necessary tool then. Now they are just dangerous toys. People might not be so worried about your guns if they were all flintlocks.

Who is "get your Man card back" addressed to if not the emasculated?

The Constitution was framed by rich men to protect themselves and their property from what Peggy Hutchinson called the "dirty mob". It was anti-freedom to its core.

And it led to civil war.
parados
 
  2  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 12:03 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
No, it doesn't turn every gun owner into a criminal. It only turns those that refuse to comply with the law into a criminal.


The comment was banning all guns and any US government that try that is an illegal government on it face however any lesser action can likely wait for the courts and the voters to deal with.

And no one in the government has proposed banning all guns. But don't let that stop you from being paranoid, I guess.
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 12:07 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Good job Bill... You didn't have to go back 20 years to find a knife attack. Of course we don't have any knife attacks that killed 20 people in the last 20 years
.

You got to be kidding me as that was just the first of a long long long list of knives attacks that show up on google search for such happening on trains including the UK.

Oh I was replying to Firefly silly claims that guns are causing people to attacked people on trains and you wish to go back to mass murder?

Give me how recent you care for a knifing attack story on a train to be and I am sure I can give it to you.

In fact let see...........how about a feb 2011?

Quote:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/Police+fatal+attack+unprovoked+sided/7758709/story.html

In February 2011, police shot and killed a teenager after a series of violent robberies at the Coliseum LRT station. In that case, a woman passenger had a knife held to her throat by one of a group of robbers, and a man was slashed with knives and beaten when he refused to give the teens money. One of the teen robbers, Cyrus Green, was shot and killed by police after he lunged at an officer with a bat and a knife
.

Then we have a knife attack story on the tube from oct 22, 2012 in gun free england.


Quote:


http://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/court-crime/man_convicted_over_paddington_tube_station_knife_slash_attack_at_rush_hour_1_1665046

Monday, October 22, 2012
5:08 PM


A knifeman who slashed a stranger across the face on a rush-hour Tube train for accidentally brushing against him is facing jail.

Email Print
Ahmed Bero, 23, launched himself at teenager Kurrim Buchanan in front of dozens of terrified commuters on the Bakerloo line between Paddington and Marylebone stations.

Bero drew a craft knife from his pocket and sliced through Mr Buchanan’s clothes before cutting him across the cheek as the minor scuffle turned bloody at about 8.25am on October 18 last year, Blackfriars Crown Court heard.

Mr Buchanan suffered a three-inch cut to his face, while his friend Boyd Maynard was also injured in the fracas, which spilled out onto a platform at Paddington packed with commuters.

Jurors were shown CCTV from the platform, where Mr Buchanan and Mr Maynard made their escape, barging past rush-hour commuters and finding safety in the arms of a police officer.

Glen Carasco, prosecuting, had told the court: “Mr Buchanan and his friend Boyd Maynard got on together at around 8ish and managed to get seats.

“They sat down opposite each other, one of them sitting next to the defendant Mr Bero.

“The Tube carried on heading southbound and as you would expect gets busier and more cramped. During the journey it seems that Mr Bero and Mr Buchanan come into some sort of contact accidentally whilst they are sitting next to each other.”

Witnesses saw the trio arguing before Bero unleashed his attack, pulling out a yellow craft knife as the train pulled in to Paddington.

Mr Maynard told the court he had tried to calm Mr Buchanan because he had blood gushing from his face, adding: “When I saw him on the platform I saw that his injury was 100 times worse than mine. He was saying, ‘My face is f*****’. I was trying to calm him down.”

Bero, who stayed on the train through Edgware Road until police stopped it at Marylebone, claimed self-defence after the two men tried to rob him, saying Mr Buchanan had pulled out the knife.

But Bero, of St Mary’s Street, Gillingham, Kent, was unanimously convicted of wounding with intent to cause GBH, and possessing a knife in public.

Judge Daniel Worsley bailed Bero on Monday, but warned him he faces “potentially a long sentence” when he returns on December 3.

He added: “For somebody who takes a knife unlawfully and uses it, custody is very much almost inevitable.”

Also on this site:




0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 12:10 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You are aware that we live in a country of laws, aren't you. We don't "overthrow" our government, we vote them in and out of office. It's not 1776, it's 2013. And sensible gun control measures, such as the President's proposals, do not threaten Second Amendment rights.


The comment/posting I was replying to were that all firearms should just be ban and once more any government that try that would not be a government of laws but an illegal government that need to be deal with as an illegal government.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 12:21 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
That's completely irrelevant to the issue of gun violence, and how to curb it.


Bullshit you were claiming that due to the man having a gun he ended up attacking others on the train and that he would not had done so with out that gun.

There is however nothing special about a firearm weapon over any other type of weapon that man might have been carrying be it a knife or a large screw driver.
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 12:25 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
The Constitution was framed by rich men to protect themselves and their property from what Peggy Hutchinson called the "dirty mob". It was anti-freedom to its core.


So you wish Americans to loss their freedoms and to used the excuse of gun violence at least you seem more honest then Firefly in that regard.

By the way the dirty mob is going to remain armed in the US.
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 12:46 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
because he can't acknowledge the current problem of gun violence in our country


An you are selling the idea that guns cause people to attacked other people and without that gun in the man on the train pocket there would had been no attack and my point, back by hundreds of stories some only weeks old is that people are attacked on trains all the time with all kinds of weapons.

There is nothing special about a firearm in that regard that cause assaults.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 01:27 pm
re BillRM:
Firearms make assaults easier, more immediate, more prone to rage and loss of control, and generally more lethal than many other forms of assault. Your position seems to be that we shouldn't try to reduce murders or assaults because they'll just happen anyway. That's dumb.
BillRM
 
  0  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 01:46 pm
@MontereyJack,
F
Quote:
irearms make assaults easier, more immediate, more prone to rage and loss of control, and generally more lethal than many other forms of assault. Your position seems to be that we shouldn't try to reduce murders or assaults because they'll just happen anyway. That's dumb.


My position is there is nothing at all special about having a firearm with you over any other type of weapons that cause people to assault others.

That within 10 to 15 feet or so a knife is every bit as deadly as a firearm and that is why you hear how police had shoot to killed someone who approached then with a knife at all closely.

Personally when I am carrying a firearm I go far more out of my way to not enter any form of a conflict no matter how mild a conflict compare to when I am not armed.

Guns are not similar to the ring in the lord of the ring and cause anyone who carry it to move to the evil side of life no matter what Firefly keep trying to sell.

Violence is violence and the tools that someone used to assault someone is not the reason for the assault.



firefly
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:03 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
My position is there is nothing at all special about having a firearm with you over any other type of weapons that cause people to assault others.

Then why do you carry a gun, rather than another type of weapon, on your person? Why don't you give up your gun for another type of weapon if there is "nothing at all special about having a firearm with you "?

Why don't we put guards in schools who are armed with only knives?

If guns aren't more effectively lethal than other weapons, why do law enforcement officers carry them?

Why isn't our problem with violence from other weapons equivalent to our problem with gun violence in this country?

As MontereyJack has pointed out...
Quote:
firearms make assaults easier, more immediate, more prone to rage and loss of control, and generally more lethal than many other forms of assault.

They also facilitate more mass murders, and suicides, and homicides, and murder/suicides (which are almost always committed with a firearm), as well as the wounding of innocent bystanders with stray bullets, and accidental deaths of children, and domestic violence fatalities--on a yearly basis in this country--than other weapons do.

That's why we have a problem with gun violence in this country--these "tools" help to enable the violence. These particular "tools" increase the probability that the violence will result in fatalities and damage to human life.



XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:15 pm
@firefly,
An avid gun holder has no reputable answer for this...It is one thing for them to want a gun for personal reasons...and it is a free right that they currently have....It is just plain stupid for them to argue about the effectiveness of its killing ability...with lame comparisons to other things guards can have such as a knife...Or grade a pepper spray...

How hard would it be for someone be able to kill 27 other people with one knife?

Sure people can die from any such thing...But most things...Even weapons....Are mostly designed to wound someone and bring them down....Or hurt them so they leave you alone...Not even most weapons are made to kill on instant impact...Like a gun is...

And they obviously know this...and it is one of the reasons they carry...

Bill tried to make the claim that Christmas tress kill 4 people a year? What a friggen GD joke...To draw such comparisons, and clutch so many straws to defend the right to posses a firearm...

That alone should bring up red flags, and sound all kinds of bells and whistles...That that thinking is not normal, or rational...
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:17 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Who is "get your Man card back" addressed to if not the emasculated?


I should have added "and in whom does it strike a receptive chord if not the emasculated?"
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:22 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
Quote:
That alone should bring up red flags, and sound all kinds of bells and whistles...That that thinking is not normal, or rational...

I agree completely.

But I think it's quite clear that we can't have a rational discussion with an irrational person. So why bother continuing to respond to such irrational and illogical statements?



XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:23 pm
@BillRM,
LoL...Bill...Christmas trees kill 4 people a year? Should we institute Christmas trees guarding every door to every school? 2 Cents Idea

LMAO...I mean seriously...

What a ridiculous claim...

0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:27 pm
@firefly,
Yeah, I figured you did...I just want to say...My post was meant for agreeing with your view over Bill's...I know it sounded kinda like I was asking you direct questions...

But I did not mean it that ways...

I agree with what you have been saying also...

And I should not have been so lazy....And made my reply to Bill...With your quotes in there....Sorry...

I think you have said many, many bright things on this discussion...
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:45 pm
Any gun owner (bill) who makes the claim that knives, baseball bats crowbars are as lethal as guns, should immediately have all their guns removed from their possession and be issued One Knife, One Baseball Bat and One Crowbar.

Joe(they can also have a rock)Nation
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:48 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
By the way the dirty mob is going to remain armed in the US.


I know that. You obviously do too.

Hence you are using this thread to wallow in scenes and images of violence.

Mr Obarmy is like most men in his position. He wins power with a certain rhetoric tailored to demographics and promise of partonage and finds himself the leader of a going concern which he cannot understand because no one can understand it and thus he fears disrupting it on the principle that good intentions might have unintended consequences which he can't predict.

So the question is--what negative unintended consequences would a total ban on guns in private hands have? For the USA I mean.

Perhaps the money spent on guns and ammo would be spent on something else. Pretty frocks for example. Soft furnishings. Fragrances. Chocolates. Now that is how to maintain a Man card in smooth running order.

For target practice one must need to be at a bit of a loose end I should have thought.
firefly
 
  1  
Fri 18 Jan, 2013 02:48 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
I think we, and a lot of other posters, are just wasting our time responding to BillRM's illogical and absurd nonsense. He's not reasonable. We have a specific problem with gun violence in this country, that is quite apart from the general issue of violence, and that's what he adamantly refuses to acknowledge.

Well, that's BillRM's blind spot, and it's his problem. His thinking has demonstrated similar blind spots, and limitations, on a wide variety of other topics as well.

I've tried to use my responses to him to help advance the topic discussion, or to help look at another aspect of the topic of gun violence, but it's really futile, and it only encourages him to actively continue to disrupt discussion of the topic.

Thankfully, a majority of people in my country have finally awakened to the need for better gun control, and they have started to demand it. It doesn't really matter that BillRM is not among that group. He's wrapped in his own little bubble, and he can stay there.

 

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