64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:00 pm

Aren't most bullets still made out of lead? And isn't lead a major toxic pollutant? Which doesn't degrade?

How many tons of lead are fired into the environment by gun hobbyists each year?

Just wondering.
parados
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:04 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:


I wanted one because they just look so f'ing cool.


I guess you have to be one of the cool kids....

http://www.2dayblog.com/images/2008/january/hellokitty_ar15assault_2.jpg
BillRM
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:14 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
How many tons of lead are fired into the environment by gun hobbyists each year?


The lead in bullets is a small fraction of the source of the lead in our environment compare to such sources as old electronic for example and the burning of coal and so on.

The lead do need to be deal with at outdoor guns ranges and such to keep it out of ground water.

Oh open the hood of your car and look at you car battery and guess how many bullets it would take to equal that amount of lead.
McTag
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:20 pm
@BillRM,

But I don't scatter it willy-nilly and unnecessarily around where I live.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:22 pm
@McTag,
Quote:
But I don't scatter it willy-nilly and unnecessarily around where I live.


Nor are bullets at gun ranges either indoor or outdoor gun ranges.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:26 pm
@BillRM,

Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5229274)
Quote:
Then why is that so often people say "the guy was just a normal guy?"


Name me one repeat one of the mass murders of late that could be said of repeat give me one name. Oh I am not talking about someone who killed some family members but shooting up the public at random.


Michael McLendon.

Quote:
Quote:
I do not know. Do you want to restrict gun ownership only to people who are married or who have been married? Hell, even I would oppose that!



I went mental help treatments available to those who show clear signs of needing such.


Then why did you include that comment in your original post? Why did you ask: "In fact was any of them married or been married for that matter?"


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Here in America the single greatest loss of lives due to mass killings WAS due to firearms. It was called the Civil War.



You are full of bullshit as the US civil war between levels of governments<states/federal> and have zero to do with mass murders.


I am not full of ****...and there is no need for that kind of reaction. My comment was addressed to your comment...and your comment was: “After all the two greatest lost of live due to mass killings have nothing to do with firearms.”

Your remark was gratuitous…having nothing to do with “mass shootings” which is the subject of this thread…so I responded in kind. Remember, I am not one of those calling for a ban on weapons. I just want some sanity in who can obtain them.

Quote:
Once more the largest two body counts in US history cause by mass murder have nothing to do with firearms of any type and the largest killing of school children in schools in US history have nothing to do with firearms of any type either.


Fine. Start a thread dealing with mass murders by fire or explosion. Here we are dealing with the epidemic of shooting mass killings.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:29 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
McGentrix wrote:

We have more guns, but they aren't necessarily in the hands of anyone.
Most are locked up at home only to be brought out once in awhile for a cleaning and maybe some target practice.


That's a fact.


An yet in one state Florida there are a million citizens now with the legal right to carry arms and that is ten times all the law enforcement members in the state.


That fact scares the living **** out Obama and his ilk.

I carry one, but I can't carry what I have all at once, hence the vault.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:31 pm
@parados,
Did you take the wrong med at the wrong time?

Come back when you return from your virtual trip.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You are playing games as there is zero indication that the mass murderers that used guns would not have done their killings using other means that in fact had proven more deadly not less deadly then firearms over and over.

Hell a few gallons of gasoline had proven to be more deadly then firearms when it come to mass murders holding the second largest body count in US history.

So the subject of killings by firearms and what we can do about it does relate to whether even if we could removed all the firearms in the country would that would likely stop one mass murderer from turning to other means,

Most people care about the deaths not the means the killers used to cause those deaths.

Hell would you feel better if those children in Newtown were burn to death or blown up instead of shot I know I would not.
DrewDad
 
  3  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:49 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Frank, I hate to agree with bill, but he is correct.
If the simple rules of gun safety are followed, a firearm cannot hurt you.

Good lord.

If the simple rules of auto safety are followed, no one will ever get in an accident.

If the simple rules of swimming are followed, no one will ever drown.




If the simple rules of logic are followed, no one will ever sound stupid.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:55 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5229332)
You are playing games as there is zero indication that the mass murderers that used guns would not have done their killings using other means that in fact had proven more deadly not less deadly then firearms over and over.

Hell a few gallons of gasoline had proven to be more deadly then firearms when it come to mass murders holding the second largest body count in US history.

So the subject of killings by firearms and what we can do about it does relate to whether even if we could removed all the firearms in the country would that would likely stop one mass murderer from turning to other means,

Most people care about the deaths not the means the killers used to cause those deaths.


Many people are concerned that there are too many guns in circulation...and that some of the people who have access to them are not stable enough to be allowed that right.

But I do understand your point.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 01:56 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
Re: mysteryman (Post 5227648)
mysteryman wrote:

Frank, I hate to agree with bill, but he is correct.
If the simple rules of gun safety are followed, a firearm cannot hurt you.

Good lord.

If the simple rules of auto safety are followed, no one will ever get in an accident.

If the simple rules of swimming are followed, no one will ever drown.




If the simple rules of logic are followed, no one will ever sound stupid.


Indeed!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:06 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Many people are concerned that there are too many guns in circulation...and that some of the people who have access to them are not stable enough to be allowed that right.


I am concern about people killing people in large numbers not the means of doing so and there is no way of controlling all the means of killing people on a large scale.

Going after one means of killings and leaving access to all the others is completely pointless.

Mental health treatment may save lives and so could better security but so call gun control even it possible is not going to so we therefore are wasting resources that might do some good it spend wisely.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:11 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Most people care about the deaths not the means the killers used to cause those deaths.


true-ish

some of us are shocked by the very high murder rate in the U.S. - regardless of means of murder

and some of us are also shocked by the acceptance of that high murder rate by many Americans - and the expressed value of gun ownership above human life

<shrug>

It's the American way.

parados
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:11 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I am concern about people killing people in large numbers not the means of doing so and there is no way of controlling all the means of killing people on a large scale.

So because we control access to some of them is no reason to try to control the others? That's like arguing because some things you eat will kill you you shouldn't eat anything.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:12 pm
@DrewDad,
DrewDad wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Frank, I hate to agree with bill, but he is correct.
If the simple rules of gun safety are followed, a firearm cannot hurt you.

Good lord.

If the simple rules of auto safety are followed, no one will ever get in an accident.


probably one of the reasons gun deaths are expected to pass deaths involving motor vehicle accidents in less than three years
firefly
 
  3  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:16 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
I went mental help treatments available to those who show clear signs of needing such.
I think we already have mental health treatment available for those who need and want it, but we can certainly beef it up even more.
We need to make sure that there is health care coverage to pay for such treatment, and that insurers support referrals to mental health care professionals to encourage such treatment.

But we also need to better screen the mental health of those who seek to acquire guns through legal channels--just as we already screen the mental health of those who would acquire guns by becoming law enforcement officers or members of the military. And that's also one way to identify those "who show clear signs of needing such" mental health care and offering them the proper referrals. And some sort of wide-scale mental health screening/testing/evaluation, which is computer scored, for those seeking to make gun purchases, can be accomplished without very much difficulty--police departments and the military have been doing that sort of thing for a very long time.

But you've also equivocated when Frank has pointed out that certain people should be kept from being able to buy guns, and that includes all the people with significant anger control issues, or episodic explosive anger outbursts, or a history of assaults, or specific threats, or stalking/harassment behaviors, and, as I've mentioned, those with domestic violence histories, or Orders of Protection in effect.

All of those who show high risk or high potential to use these guns in a violent manner should not be allowed easy access to purchasing guns. Otherwise, the entire idea of wanting "mental help treatments available", as a solution to the gun violence problem, is a totally meaningless statement. You need to identify those who are in need of such treatment before they can acquire firearms legally, precisely so such treatment can be made available or suggested, and so we can help to make sure that the guns will not be in the wrong hands of the "bad guys" and the "sick guys". Perhaps such screening measures will also act as a motivator, for those who wish to acquire guns, to seek treatment in order to be able to obtain them, if their applications for purchase are denied.

Even if mental health screening is an imperfect solution, it's better than simply ignoring the issue, and it's certainly an option which is well worth considering, and discussing, in addressing the public health problem with gun violence. This isn't just about preventing mass murders, although we do want to try to accomplish that, it's also about trying to curb our systemic problem with gun violence, an issue you continually try to dodge.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:17 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
probably one of the reasons gun deaths are expected to pass deaths involving motor vehicle accidents in less than three years


Engineers never seems to get the credit they deserve as in this case greatly improving the safety of cars and the highways/roadways.
parados
 
  2  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:21 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:


Engineers never seems to get the credit they deserve as in this case greatly improving the safety of cars and the highways/roadways.

It's too bad any call for changing gun safety features like we have mandated car safety is met with such resistance.
BillRM
 
  0  
Thu 17 Jan, 2013 02:22 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
But we also need to better screen the mental health of those who seek to acquire guns through legal channels


Howabout gasoline and hair dyes and fingernail polish remover and the million and one other materials that can be used and had been used to mass murder people and in greater numbers then firearms Firefly?
 

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