64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 09:55 am
@spendius,
It's quite amusing though. Keep it up you silly moocow.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 09:58 am
Across the pond...

Gun crime has almost doubled since Labour came to power as a culture of extreme gang violence has taken hold.

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

In some parts of the country, the number of offences has increased more than five-fold.

In eighteen police areas, gun crime at least doubled.

The statistic will fuel fears that the police are struggling to contain gang-related violence, in which the carrying of a firearm has become increasingly common place.

The only guys who have guns in this case are the bad guys, since guns are banned for the good guys in the UK.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 09:59 am
Here in the States...

Violent crime in the United States fell for the fifth consecutive year in 2011 with murder, rape and robbery all going down, although crime remains a serious problem in many urban areas, the FBI said on Monday.

The report of all crimes reported to police nationwide showed slightly more than 1.2 million violent incidents nationwide, while property crimes hit a nine-year low.

Compared with 2010, the new figures show violent crime down 3.8 percent overall. Property crime was down 0.5 percent.

Among violent incidents reported to police, murders were down about 0.7 percent, robberies dropped 4 percent, aggravated assaults declined 3.9 percent, and forcible rapes were down 2.5 percent.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:01 am
More about what's really going on across the pond...

Gun Crime Soars in England Where Guns Are Banned

The Government's latest crime figures were condemned as "truly terrible" by the Tories today as it emerged that gun crime in England and Wales soared by 35% last year.

Criminals used handguns in 46% more offences, Home Office statistics revealed.

Firearms were used in 9,974 recorded crimes in the 12 months to last April, up from 7,362.

It was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise and there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year than the previous peak in 1993.

Figures showed the number of crimes involving handguns had more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

"Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offenses.

"The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either.

"The figures will continue to be dreadful until the Government produces a coherent long term strategy to attack crime at its roots and get police visibly back on our streets."

Gun crime would not be cracked until gangs were broken up and the streets "reclaimed for the honest citizen by proper neighborhood policing", he added.
revelette
 
  2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:08 am
High cost of the NRA's extremism

Quote:
Wayne LaPierre can’t say we didn’t warn him.

Several weeks ago, I spoke on "Morning Joe" about how the tragedy at Newtown changed everything. On the set that morning and on many occasions since Dec. 14, we have warned that the extreme faction of the NRA will either face political reality or face political disaster.

As a longtime supporter of the Second Amendment, I had hoped their executives and lobbyists would not take an absolutist position on the issue since that would ultimately set back the cause of gun rights. Unfortunately, Mr. LaPierre chose to respond as if it were 1994.

As we predicted, his extreme position has now cost NRA leaders political support. A new ABC News/Washington Post shows that for the first time in years, a majority of Americans now support a ban on certain types of assault weapons. An overwhelming majority back universal background checks, a national database to track gun sales, and the banning of high-capacity magazines.

More to the point of our earlier warning, the NRA’s own approval rating has plummeted since LaPierre’s tone-deaf news conference. It is hard to imagine how the NRA's worst enemy could have done more damage to the organization than the out-of-touch leader is doing himself.

The NRA needs to self-correct before they do more damage to their cause.


NRA puts out a deceptive disgusting ad dragging the president's kids into the gun debate.

NRA’s new ad calls Obama ‘elitist hypocrite’

Quote:
The National Rifle Association released a new video on its Web site Tuesday calling President Obama an “elitist hypocrite” for having Secret Service protection of his daughters at school but saying he was “skeptical” about installing armed guards in all schools.

The National Rifle Association released a new video on its Web site Tuesday calling President Obama an “elitist hypocrite” for having Secret Service protection of his daughters at school but saying he was “skeptical” about installing armed guards in all schools.



The NRA’s provocative, 35-second video is as harsh as any attack ad in a political campaign and illustrates how emotionally charged and personal the debate over gun control is becoming.

“Are the president’s kids more important than yours?” a deep-voiced narrator asks. “Then why is he skeptical about putting armed security in our schools when his kids are protected by armed guards at their school? Mr. Obama demands the wealthy pay their fair share of taxes, but he’s just another elitist hypocrite when it comes to a fair share of security.”

A White House spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The video takes issue with Obama’s comments in a recent interview on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” in which the president voiced uncertainty about the NRA’s proposal to put armed security guards in schools nationwide.

“I am skeptical that the only answer is putting more guns in schools,” Obama said. “And I think the vast majority of the American people are skeptical that that somehow is going to solve our problem.”

A majority of Americans, 55 percent, support the NRA’s armed guards proposal, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll released this week. Those with children at home are more apt than those without to want armed guards at schools, the poll shows.


Aside from the no class act of dragging the President's kids into the discussion, the ad was deceptive because Obama did not say he was skeptical about putting armed guards in schools. What he said was he was skeptical about only putting armed guards in schools in order to solve the problem (of gun violence.)
BillRM
 
  -1  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:10 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Oh, Christ...don't tell me the Romans banned gun ownership too!


No however Marcus Licinius Crassus stated unless you own your own private legions you could not be consider wealthy.

Kind of similar to having Bill Gate having ownership of the 101 airborne.

Next the US was created by people who did not have complete trust in the government they had called into being and the second amendment was part of the balance of power between the government and the people.

As far as ideas of my own I had taken note that one of the steps to deal with school shooting being suggested by the Obama administration is to grant funding to school systems for armed security and more mental health programs both I and others here had also suggested.

Neither of those suggestion is getting the news play as the meaningless assault ban is getting however.

Also if you also wish to greatly reduce so call gun violence stop pumping billions on top of billions into the drug gangs pockets with our crazy war on drugs.

It would also be welcome in Mexico where drug gangs are completely out of control even in the face of tight gun control laws.



spendius
 
  1  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:13 am
@H2O MAN,
Reduced to quoting Tory Party propaganda are you old boy. And from when they were in opposition too.

It proved insufficient at the election and they are now tucked up in bed, nice and cosy, with Liberal Democrats and we know what you think about that shower of wet windbags.

And we could have had another election with the main parties skint. An ideal situation in the eyes of a true democrat.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:14 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I'd bet Alexander Hamilton would also!


Jefferson never but Hamilton was a big powerful central government person and fear the people[mob] more then the government therefore he would likely be on the side of disarming the citizens.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:15 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5228143)
Stick with the constitution and you will be OK.


I'm pretty sure I am going to be okay no matter what, H2O. I recognize and acknowledge the value of the document; I recognize and acknowledge the arguments of gun owners and I recognize and acknowledge the arguments of those who want fewer guns in circulation.

We are just discussing the various sides...and options here in an Internet forum filled with people of diverse opinions.

I getting as much fun out of it as possible...and I truly am not trying to put anyone down. We have our take on things...and I am happy to be in the company of people who take the time to put their thoughts to paper.
spendius
 
  2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:16 am
@revelette,
Quote:
It is hard to imagine how the NRA's worst enemy could have done more damage to the organization than the out-of-touch leader is doing himself


Some of the tough guys on here are not doing so bad either.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:16 am
@Frank Apisa,

History will show that you were on the wrong side of things.
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:18 am
@spendius,


spendi, I see that you continue to run from facts and logic.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:19 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Re: revelette (Post 5228172)
Quote:
It is hard to imagine how the NRA's worst enemy could have done more damage to the organization than the out-of-touch leader is doing himself

Some of the tough guys on here are not doing so bad either.


The poor NRA had increased their memberships roll by 250,000 in the last few weeks.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -3  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:20 am
@revelette,


How high is the cost of Obama's anti-American extremism?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  3  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:20 am
@BillRM,
Bill-- I think Mr Hamilton was for not having hoi polloi voting never mind carrying arsenals around.
spendius
 
  2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:24 am
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
spendi, I see that you continue to run from facts and logic.


What facts and logic did I run from in that post? You seem like a right old liberal democrat to me.
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:26 am
@spendius,
Run spendi, run!
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:27 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5228143)
Quote:
Oh, Christ...don't tell me the Romans banned gun ownership too!


No however Marcus Licinius Crassus stated unless you own your own private legions you could not be consider wealthy.


I am delighted Crassus shared his opinion with the world. That doesn't make it gospel, but for the most part, the legions and armies of Rome seemed to be privately financed. Most generals were appointed and amassed their own armies...often using personal money. Perhaps the history buffs of A2K can fill in some details. So Crassus' opinion probably was worthwhile back then. But that stuff has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.

Quote:
Next the US was created by people who did not have complete trust in the government they had called into being and the second amendment was part of the balance of power between the government and the people.


The US was created by people who also thought slave ownership was allowable and that only propertied males should vote.

Things change, Bill.

Quote:
Also if you also wish to greatly reduce so call gun violence stop pumping billions on top of billions into the drug gangs pockets with our crazy war on drugs.


Amen. And I was writing those words back 40+ years ago. I had an op ed sized essay on it in the New York Times 25 years ago...when there was a social price to pay for daring to suggest such things. So, yeah...that would help. But ideas for doing more are worthwhile.
BillRM
 
  0  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:28 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Bill-- I think Mr Hamilton was for not having hoi polloi voting never mind carrying arsenals around.


Quote:
The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right.
Alexander Hamilton

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Wed 16 Jan, 2013 10:29 am
@Frank Apisa,


Americans are unhappy with their government.

Americans do not trust their government.

Obama and his liberal democrats are doing nothing to change this.
 

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