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Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 07:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
My point earlier was that there are more people harmed by having guns in the house than are ever helped by using the guns used to repel a home invasion (or the federal government invading!)

And I am correct.


First the chance/risk of either my wife or I having a gun accident is nil and it is nil for anyone with a little gun safety training so the benefits in home safety of my wife having firearms in the house, with special note of when my wife is at the house in a near suburb of Detroit without me, is far far far greater then any gun safety risks.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 08:26 pm
@BillRM,
They are still there, Bill. Or at least, they were before Sandy kicked our collective asses. I enjoy the shooting myself...although I have NEVER, in the many, many years I've been going there, EVER seen anyone shoot out the entire of the red star.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 08:32 pm
billrm says:
Quote:
First the chance/risk of either my wife or I having a gun accident is nil and it is nil for anyone with a little gun safety training
which is exactly what all the people who then accidentally shoot themselves or someone they love think.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 08:34 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
No I am saying that half the home owners in the US have every damn right to have weapons in their homes for whatever reason and by your logic you could ban almost anything in a home. In any case my father did a little hunting and some target shooting.


Not by my logic, Bill. I am not part of the "ban guns" bandwagon.

I am merely pointing out that the "ban guns" arguments have as much validity as your "more guns will help" thingy.

Frankly, I think both "solutions" are on a road to nowhere...and both suck big time, in my opinion, as realistic or reasonable (for different reasons).

The problem almost certainly is much, much more complex than we are pretending it is...and the solution so complex it almost defies imagination.

In any case, I totally agree that people have the right to own guns. I truly wish they didn't...because the problem would not have grown to the proportions it now occupies if that right had not been given the way it was...

...but here it is.

Now we have got to deal with it.

You have no trouble at all seeing the problems with the "solution" offered by the "ban guns" contingent. If only you would open your eyes and see the problems with the alternatives your side is offering...you might become part of the solution (if there truly is one) rather than a part of the problem.

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 08:37 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Re: Frank Apisa (Post 5226854)
Quote:
My point earlier was that there are more people harmed by having guns in the house than are ever helped by using the guns used to repel a home invasion (or the federal government invading!)

And I am correct.


First the chance/risk of either my wife or I having a gun accident is nil and it is nil for anyone with a little gun safety training so the benefits in home safety of my wife having firearms in the house, with special note of when my wife is at the house in a near suburb of Detroit without me, is far far far greater then any gun safety risks.


I think I said this once before, Bill...but the only way that is a reasonable conclusion is to define anyone who ever has a gun accident as being outside the group for whom the chances are nil.

But surely you can see that hundreds are killed accidentally and thousands are severely wounded. Some, Bill, are well trained and are careful...just as some well trained, careful drivers get into automobile accidents.

Why are you so blind about this?
firefly
 
  3  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 08:51 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You do wish to live in a world where everyone is wrap in cotton do you not Firefly?

I'd like to live in a country where people can ride a commuter train, or go to a house of worship, or go see a movie, or send their children to school, or go to a mall, or take a college class, or go to work, without being afraid a gunman is going to show up and start shooting people.

And, you know something, I used to live in a country like that. I grew up in a country like that.
firefly
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 08:54 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
My point earlier was that there are more people harmed by having guns in the house than are ever helped by using the guns used to repel a home invasion (or the federal government invading


That certainly was true for Nancy Lanza. She was the first person her son Adam killed before he went to Sandy Hook Elementary School.

http://wp.patheos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/blogs/wwjtd/files/2013/01/guns.jpg

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:03 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I'd like to live in a country where people can ride a commuter train, or go to a house of worship, or go see a movie, or send their children to school, or go to a mall, or take a college class, or go to work, without being afraid a gunman is going to show up and start shooting people.
people can always choose to not be afraid, we cant control what others do with their minds though. my odds of getting shot in a shoot em up is very small, so why would I diminish my quality of life by living in fear about the possibility?
BillRM
 
  0  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:12 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
They are still there, Bill. Or at least, they were before Sandy kicked our collective asses. I enjoy the shooting myself...although I have NEVER, in the many, many years I've been going there, EVER seen anyone shoot out the entire of the red star.


The real firearms are there or was as I do not remember seeing anything but airguns now on such arcades?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:14 pm
@BillRM,
The guns are still there...or they are now chaining airguns.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:16 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That shooting staccato is as much a part of the boardwalk as sausage and pepper sandwiches...or Philly Cheese Steaks.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:16 pm
@hawkeye10,
Judging by all the people who now feel a need to carry a gun all the time, and who are urging others to do the same, we have an awful lot of people living in fear.

And that fear all revolves around guns.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:18 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
which is exactly what all the people who then accidentally shoot themselves or someone they love think.


Nonsense a hundred millions or more gun owners and a few thousand accidents a year if only most things in life had that kind of safety record.

The safe ways of handling guns become second nature long before the 40 plus years of handling firearms that both myself and my wi fe have at this point in other word a total of eighty years without any form of an accident with them between the two of us.

But I am sure you are more of a firearm expert then myself or my wife.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
thousands are severely wounded. Some, Bill, are well trained and are careful...just as some well trained, careful drivers get into automobile accidents.


Sorry but you would need to work at having an accident by somehow sitting aside decades of the proper ways of handling firearms that had become a part of you.

Modern firearms when handle correctly are as safe as anything yet produce by mankind.
firefly
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:24 pm
http://www.politicsplus.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/22GunOwnership.jpg
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:26 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And that fear all revolves around guns

lair, that fear revolves around coming to harm from another, by guns or any other means. we no longer believe in each other as you well know given how you are always looking for the government to protect you from all of the impure people which you think surround you.
firefly
 
  2  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:31 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
that fear revolves around coming to harm from another, by guns or any other means. we no longer believe in each other as you well know given how you are always looking for the government to protect you from all of the impure people you think surround you.


I'm not the one walking around with a gun. I'm not the one living in fear.

The gun nuts in this thread specifically want to be armed with guns because their main fear is of a "bad guy" with a gun and they want to be similarly armed--at all times, and in all places.

It's all about guns...

BillRM
 
  -1  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:33 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I'd like to live in a country where people can ride a commuter train, or go to a house of worship, or go see a movie, or send their children to school, or go to a mall, or take a college class, or go to work, without being afraid a gunman is going to show up and start shooting people.

And, you know something, I used to live in a country like that. I grew up in a country like that.


Well mass killing peaked in this country in 1929 so you must be older then even I had assume............. Laughing

As far as risks we all would wish to live in a fantasy land where all people are sane and nice to others and there is no unabomber or 911 hijackers or Manson family or Jim John and so on....

Oh as far as riding trains in safety some jokers removed a few rails and killed god know how many riding on a passenger train our west a few decades ago and was never found.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:33 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I'm not the one walking around with a gun. I'm not the one living in fear.

you are so in fear that you constantly argue for the creation of a police state to protect you!
firefly
 
  3  
Mon 14 Jan, 2013 09:36 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Well mass killing peaked in this country in 1929 so you must be older then even I had assume.............

If it peaked in 1929, that means it declined after that.

You must be even more deficient in logic than I had assumed.... Smile
 

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