64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2013 08:26 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The Freedom Haters don't have the power to do that.


Only because they are frightened of being called Freedom Haters more than they are frightened of an endless series of massacres.


No. It's because the politicians are frightened of being voted out of office.

I like my Congressman. But if the NRA asks me to, I will devote the rest of my life to getting him voted out of office.

There are a LOT of people just like me. We all like our Congressmen. We'll all devote our lives to getting our Congressmen voted out of office if the NRA asks us to.



spendius wrote:
Do you think I am frightened of being called a Freedom Hater oralloy?


I think you are proud of the fact that you oppose freedom.



spendius wrote:
I don't give two fucks actually and it surprises me that anybody of even average intelligence would be cowed by a stupid assertion of such an infantile nature.


Telling the truth is hardly a stupid assertion. But it has nothing to do with cowing anyone.

We do all our cowing on election day.
oralloy
 
  1  
Wed 9 Jan, 2013 08:28 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
Finally, we're getting clear public statements from people like that, those who are the most highly experienced with assault weapons, and who are not anti-gun, and whose comments urging serious gun control measures are not so easily dismissed.


He is very much anti-gun. And his call to ban all hunting rifles is quite easily dismissed.

Thank God that freak was booted out of the military. Good riddance!



firefly wrote:
I don't wonder that McChrystal's remarks might make you gung-ho gun-lobby groupies want to try to change the subject.


No reason to change the subject. But not a lot to say other than an expression of relief that the freak was booted out of the military.
OmSigDAVID
 
  3  
Wed 9 Jan, 2013 09:58 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

firefly wrote:
Finally, we're getting clear public statements from people like that, those who are the most highly experienced with assault weapons, and who are not anti-gun, and whose comments urging serious gun control measures are not so easily dismissed.


He is very much anti-gun. And his call to ban all hunting rifles is quite easily dismissed.

Thank God that freak was booted out of the military. Good riddance!



firefly wrote:
I don't wonder that McChrystal's remarks might make you gung-ho gun-lobby groupies want to try to change the subject.


No reason to change the subject. But not a lot to say other than an expression of relief that the freak was booted out of the military.
We have nothing to worry about as long as the judiciary
gives us historically accurate interpretations of the Constitution,
in keeping with the Original Intent of the Founders.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Wed 9 Jan, 2013 10:08 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


Quote:
Just because people care about our freedom, that doesn't justify calling them idiots.


Correct. But when they continually say idiotic things, that does.
U r only mindlessly slinging mud, not logically arguing, McTag.





David
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 12:47 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

Thank God that freak was booted out of the military.

That four star General you are calling a "freak" was a former commander of the Joint Special Operations Command who ran all special operations in Iraq, and he was the top commander of American forces in Afghanistan.

And, not only was he not booted out of the military, the day after he announced his retirement, the White House announced that he would retain his four-star rank in retirement, although law generally requires a four-star officer to hold his rank for three years in order to retain it in retirement and McChrystal had held the rank for only one year.
Quote:

He is very much anti-gun. And his call to ban all hunting rifles is quite easily dismissed.


I don't see any evidence he is anti-gun, but he definitely is calling for serious control over certain types of weapons that are really designed for military combat--whether these are weapons some want to use for hunting, or those you insist have only certain "cosmetic features" or those that people think they need for home defense--he is saying there has to be serious discussion about restricting their sale and availability because these are assault weapons. And his call for such control is based on his own knowledge and personal experience with weaponry, which is considerably more extensive than yours, and is based on his own concern for the public welfare, which also appears considerably greater than yours.

What you personally think of Gen. McChrystal is really of no importance. What is important is that, when a member of our top military brass speaks out in favor of serious gun control, and says that military-type assault weapons do not belong on the streets of our country, and he decries the daily deaths due to guns in this country, a great many people do listen and pay attention to him, and his comments are not easily dismissed. And the fact that a military leader has just added his voice to the swelling chorus calling for better gun control, and serious action to reduce the gun violence in our country, does signal something about the momentum of this movement right now, and the diversity of those joining in this aim, as well as a shift in attitude toward the issue, so that passivity is no longer an acceptable option.

Some people have decided it is time for another revolution--a revolution against the NRA and its stranglehold on the gun laws and gun policies we live with, and it's obstruction of even common sense measures toward better regulation, and it's obstruction of even scientific research into the effects of gun possession, which, if done, could inform better policy-making decisions regarding guns. And, hopefully, the current grassroots initiative will continue to coalesce, and organize, and gain the effectiveness to pressure the lawmakers into revising their attitudes as well, so that they respond to the voices calling for change and action, and not just to the NRA/gun manufacturers-lobby that has a vested interest in feeding the paranoia and fear that helps their profits to thrive, and a vested interest in maintaining our problem with gun violence.

And, if the lawmakers realize they will pay a higher price if they don't respond to those voices calling for change, they will act. And I do think that the massacre of 20 six and seven year olds was the tipping point--the agony and horror of that particular mass shooting tragedy has produced the attitude change necessary to get people mobilized. And I'm glad that Gen. McChrystal has added his voice to the fight.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MPRs9Z5NCNo/UNYackHn7nI/AAAAAAABRsk/sgMKQFip9UQ/s400/NRA-Tipping-Point.jpg











hawkeye10
 
  3  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 12:57 am
@firefly,
Quote:
What you personally think of Gen. McChrystal is really of no importance. What is important is that, when a member of our top military brass speaks out in favor of serious gun control, and says that military-type assault weapons do not belong on the streets of our country, and he decries the daily deaths due to guns in this country, a great many people do listen and pay attention to him, and his comments are not easily dismissed.

i have read no evaluation of his motives but the most likely is that years of fighting armed rebels makes him desire that rebels not be allowed arms. according to agents of the state the population should not be allowed to challenge the state, which is exactly why the NRA demands that this right of the citizens not be removed. McCrystal is saying exactly what anyone should expect him to say, as he looks out for the interest that he cares most about, the power of the state to stay in control. His views on guns are a yawn.
McTag
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:15 am

Good morning! And how are the Minutemen this morning?

Still ready and able to use your weapons in your country's best interests, once you have figured out what those best interests are?
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 02:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Off base as usual, hawk. If you actually read his article, I'd say he's seen many many many times more than you have the horrible damage and miserable death that guns inflict on young bodies, his soldiers, and sees no reason that that should be inflicted on 100,000 Americans a year. He's a hell of a lot more familiar with guns than any of you gun zealots are, and he's no fan of their deadly effect. The question is, why are you?
jcboy
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:42 am
Gun fanatics and nut cases are calling for the deportation of Piers Morgan, who, using American's FIRST Amendment of free speech, argued for gun control legislation. Apparently, for the gun nuts, the First Amendment is not all that important. President Obama pegged it right. Congrats Mr. President!

White House Responds to Piers Morgan Petition
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:48 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Do you mean that ff is not as macho as you Bill?


So anyone who ever fired a gun is macho in your mind?

The millions of women owners and users of firearms in the US including my wife and mother are being macho for having guns and for having enjoy going target shooting with them and having them for self protection?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:51 am
@firefly,
Sorry dear but getting one person in the military who will agree with you does not change the fact what you are trying to sell to anyone who have personal information on firearms is known nonsense on it face.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  3  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 06:54 am
@Val Killmore,
Quote:
People fail to understand, hunting rifles are far more powerful and more damaging than assault rifles.


Most people who been around firearms understand that fact and only the people like Firefly who never have likely touch a gun in her life does not.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:06 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
I think you are proud of the fact that you oppose freedom.


That's far too strong. I'm not proud of it. What is there to be proud of in accepting a simple and obvious fact?

You're taking advantage of some people being frightened of opposing freedom.

Freedom is hopeless. It's baby talk. An illusion. A verbal sop for the feeble-minded to help them accept their insignificance. A chuck under the chin. A palliative for failure.

Quote:
We do all our cowing on election day.


By your own statements freedom haters won the Executive and the Senate.

I don't use expressions such as "catastrophe lovers" which is what freedom lovers actually are.

You are positing the notion that this chimera of yours, freedom, has priority over 100,000 gun deaths per year and 1,000.000 serious injuries. Or double that. Or more. That it is some absolute idea to be protected over any amount of dislocation. And its a one-note penny whistle job.

As is the idea that the NRA is running the country blowing on it. And the NRA is unelected and self-appointed and panders to sexual fetishism and fear in order to maintain what I think is a 1000% profit margin on the goods it supplies.

Your "freedom hating" mantra is pure intellectual nonsense. It's neolithic.
spendius
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:10 am
@OmSigDAVID,
The "original intent of the founders" was to keep chaps like you in their proper place David.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:41 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Thank God that freak was booted out of the military.


That four star General you are calling a "freak" was a former commander of the Joint Special Operations Command who ran all special operations in Iraq, and he was the top commander of American forces in Afghanistan.


Emphasis on the word "former".

Good riddance!



firefly wrote:
And, not only was he not booted out of the military,


The freak was ignominiously fired from his job right in the middle of it.

Whatever it was, I'll take it. Mr. Green



firefly wrote:
oralloy wrote:
He is very much anti-gun. And his call to ban all hunting rifles is quite easily dismissed.


I don't see any evidence he is anti-gun,


His call for a universal ban on all hunting rifles is a pretty good clue.



firefly wrote:
but he definitely is calling for serious control over certain types of weapons that are really designed for military combat


No, hunting rifles are not designed for military combat.



firefly wrote:
--whether these are weapons some want to use for hunting, or those you insist have only certain "cosmetic features" or those that people think they need for home defense--he is saying there has to be serious discussion about restricting their sale and availability because these are assault weapons.


No, most hunting rifles are not assault weapons.



firefly wrote:
And his call for such control is based on his own knowledge and personal experience with weaponry, which is considerably more extensive than yours,


Experience, yes. But I'd likely trump him on knowledge.

Regardless, it does not matter what the freak based his call to ban all hunting rifles on.

It's just such a relief that that freak got booted out of the military.



firefly wrote:
What you personally think of Gen. McChrystal is really of no importance. What is important is that, when a member of our top military brass speaks out in favor of serious gun control, and says that military-type assault weapons do not belong on the streets of our country,


He did not say anything about military type weapons, or assault weapons. He called for a universal ban on hunting rifles.



firefly wrote:
and he decries the daily deaths due to guns in this country, a great many people do listen and pay attention to him, and his comments are not easily dismissed.


Wrong. His comments are dismissed quite easily.



firefly wrote:
And the fact that a military leader has just added his voice to the swelling chorus calling for better gun control, and serious action to reduce the gun violence in our country, does signal something about the momentum of this movement right now, and the diversity of those joining in this aim, as well as a shift in attitude toward the issue, so that passivity is no longer an acceptable option.

Some people have decided it is time for another revolution--a revolution against the NRA and its stranglehold on the gun laws and gun policies we live with, and it's obstruction of even common sense measures toward better regulation, and it's obstruction of even scientific research into the effects of gun possession, which, if done, could inform better policy-making decisions regarding guns. And, hopefully, the current grassroots initiative will continue to coalesce, and organize, and gain the effectiveness to pressure the lawmakers into revising their attitudes as well, so that they respond to the voices calling for change and action, and not just to the NRA/gun manufacturers-lobby that has a vested interest in feeding the paranoia and fear that helps their profits to thrive, and a vested interest in maintaining our problem with gun violence.

And, if the lawmakers realize they will pay a higher price if they don't respond to those voices calling for change, they will act. And I do think that the massacre of 20 six and seven year olds was the tipping point--the agony and horror of that particular mass shooting tragedy has produced the attitude change necessary to get people mobilized. And I'm glad that Gen. McChrystal has added his voice to the fight.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-MPRs9Z5NCNo/UNYackHn7nI/AAAAAAABRsk/sgMKQFip9UQ/s400/NRA-Tipping-Point.jpg


Interesting fantasy. In the real world, however, you'll never match the voting power of the NRA.

And if you ever did, the Supreme Court would just strike down your unconstitutional laws.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:42 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
If you actually read his article, I'd say he's seen many many many times more than you have the horrible damage and miserable death that guns inflict on young bodies, his soldiers, and sees no reason that that should be inflicted on 100,000 Americans a year. He's a hell of a lot more familiar with guns than any of you gun zealots are, and he's no fan of their deadly effect.


100,000 Americans a year are shot with hunting rifles???

Anyway, like I said before, I'm sure glad that Rolling Stone hit piece cut that freak's career short.

Beyond that, there's not much more to say. Universal ban on all hunting rifles indeed!
oralloy
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:42 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
You're taking advantage of some people being frightened of opposing freedom.


Not really.



spendius wrote:
By your own statements freedom haters won the Executive and the Senate.


Our power comes from rural districts in the House of Representatives. By being able to vote people out of office in those districts alone, we can inflict catastrophic damage on any political party.



spendius wrote:
You are positing the notion that this chimera of yours, freedom, has priority over 100,000 gun deaths per year and 1,000.000 serious injuries. Or double that. Or more. That it is some absolute idea to be protected over any amount of dislocation.


It's not like gun availability actually causes a notable increase in homicide rates.

But yes, even if it did, freedom would still trump all.



spendius wrote:
And the NRA is unelected and self-appointed and panders to sexual fetishism and fear in order to maintain what I think is a 1000% profit margin on the goods it supplies.


The NRA does not supply goods. And enough with the bigoted stereotypes.



spendius wrote:
Your "freedom hating" mantra is pure intellectual nonsense. It's neolithic.


It is an accurate term to label the enemy with.
0 Replies
 
33export
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:43 am
Judging by this piece in the Trib, cops in Chicago
don't take the Second all that seriously. Is this nation becoming
a police state?
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:47 am
@33export,
Blue states have been quasi police states for years.
33export
 
  0  
Thu 10 Jan, 2013 07:51 am
@H2O MAN,
Let's hope the gun owner in that article gets a fair trial...
 

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