64
   

Another major school shooting today ... Newtown, Conn

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 08:59 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
I haven't had time to give it real thought, but my first take is "not".
Advertising is not guaranteed as a "Right of free speech" or "non infringement". Its a pure business decision. Several Outdoor Channels advertise hunting weapons and ammo 24/7.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 09:51 am
Nothing like welcoming in the New Year with another mass shooting.

A good example of how carrying a gun escalates arguments into deadly confrontations. And, an armed security guard was at the scene--and he was wounded.

Quote:
UPDATE: Suspect Arrested In Old Sacramento Multiple-Fatal Shooting
Midnight Fireworks Show Canceled After Mass Shooting
December 31, 2012

SACRAMENTO (CBS13) – A 22-year-old is in custody after allegedly shooting and killing two people and injuring two others during a fight in Old Sacramento on Monday night.

An argument began inside a bar located on corner of 2nd and K Streets at about 9:38 p.m., according to the Sacramento Police Department. The argument escalated into a fight and an employee went to break it up. During the fight, a man pulled out a gun and shot several times at the people he was fighting with.

A woman, 30, a man, 35, and the employee, a 20-year-old, male were shot. The woman suffered a non-life threatening injury to her lower body, but the two others were shot multiple times, and died.

Hearing the shots, a security guard confronted the suspect, and the two exchanged gunfire. Both were hit.

The suspect ran from the bar toward the crowded street where he was
taken into custody by responding police officers.

Both the suspect and the security guard were taken to the hospital where they remain at this time. The suspect is in custody. His identity is being withheld.

“They had one person in an ambulance and one person in a cop car,” one woman said.

“I saw the gun in the hand. He was just screaming and shooting,” another woman said.

Some 40,000 people, including lots of families with young children, had gathered in Old Sac for a 9 p.m. fireworks show shortly before the shots rang out. Another fireworks show scheduled for midnight was canceled. A Sacramento Police helicopter circled overhead to announce the midnight cancellation.

Mounted police, patrol cars and Sacramento Fire trucks converged on the scene as thousands of spectators were blocked off from the crime scene.

Witnesses described hearing several shots and then running for cover.

“Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop,” one witness said. “It sounded like a Glock.”
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/12/31/4-shot-during-new-years-eve-gathering-in-old-sacramento/

Joe Nation
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 09:55 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

spendius wrote:
Now I have mentioned the matter what is your second impression given you have now had more time?

Is the ban on gun advertising on TV constitutional or not?


I haven't had time to give it real thought, but my first take is "not".

If a gun manufacturer wanted to go to court in defense of their First Amendment rights, I think they would likely win.

Tell that to the American Tobacco Companies.

Joe(Ads are not protected speech)Nation
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 10:30 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Nothing like welcoming in the New Year with another mass shooting.

A good example of how carrying a gun escalates arguments into deadly confrontations. And, an armed security guard was at the scene--and he was wounded.


It would have been far better if the man had pull out a knife would it not had been Firefly?

As this case in gun 'free' England.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-129274/Three-hospital-street-stabbing.html

Three people, including a 10-year-old boy and a woman aged 86, were in a stable condition in hospital today after being stabbed in an apparently unprovoked attack at a bus stop.
Both the youngster and the pensioner were stabbed in the back and a 31-year-old man was knifed in the stomach in front of horrified passers-by in Brixton, south London, shortly after 1pm yesterday.
A man thought to be iun his 40s was in custody, police said.
Scotland Yard said the motive for "such savage violence" on the three apparently innocent bystanders, queuing for a bus outside the Woolworths store on Brixton Road, was "an absolute mystery".
Supt Jerry Savill, in charge of operations at Brixton, said: "It's an absolute mystery and appalling anyone would resort to such savage violence and attack innocent people going about their business on a Sunday afternoon. It's difficult to comprehend what could motivate anyone to do this."
The injured three - who were not believed to be related - were taken to King's College Hospital for treatment.
Police said a man, who had earlier been chased by officers from nearby Electric Avenue after receiving reports that he was carrying a knife, was arrested at the scene.
The man, believed to be aged 44, was taken by police to St Thomas' Hospital where he received treatment for minor injuries suffered during his arrest, then to Brixton police station for questioning.
He remains in custody.
Mr Savill said that on being challenged, the man threatened officers with a knife before running along Brixton Road.
"It would then appear without provocation he stabbed three people in the queue," he said.
"During this incident it appears the suspect lost possession of his knife but threatened officers with another knife.
"Officers finally managed to arrest him close to Woolworths shop using protective equipment, batons and CS spray."
Eyewitnesses said the area was crowded with hundreds of people at the time.
Jose Aukmin, who lives above Woolworths, said he first became aware of what happened as he looked out of the window and saw three people lying on the ground.
The 41-year-old, from Brazil, added: "I was talking to people and apparently, the suspect had been running from the direction of the Tube station towards Coldharbour Lane.
"They said he had a large kitchen knife but the police were already following him.
"When he got in front of the bus stop, he realised the police were going to get him then he started to stab people for some reason."
About five officers were on the scene quickly and more arrived in a police van.
Paramedics arrived soon afterwards and took over from police giving emergency first aid.
The scene was cordoned off while forensic experts searched the area.
Officers urged a middle-aged white woman who was believed to be taking photographs at the scene to come forward.
The woman, said to be aged 45-50, is described as having a pale complexion, short, sandy blonde hair with spectacles.
She was said to be of large build, wearing a T-shirt, possibly with a heart motif on the front, and a skirt.
A police spokesman said: "It is believed she was talking photographs of the incident and if so these may be vital evidence. We strongly urge this woman to make herself known to police."
Brixton lies in the heart of the borough of Lambeth where a controversial "softly softly" approach to cannabis is being piloted. Under the scheme, anyone found with cannabis on the streets for personal use was given either a formal or informal warning.
Asked whether the arrested man was on drugs or whether drugs was a possible motive, Mr Savill said: "There's nothing to suggest that. It's just one of several lines of inquiry."
Print this article Read later

izzythepush
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 10:34 am
@BillRM,
In the UK 3 people are hospitalised, in the USA 26 people are killed. Can you spot the difference?
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 10:43 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Nothing like welcoming in the New Year with another mass shooting.


A Dana Point man was convicted Wednesday of murdering one man and injuring his friend by stabbing the victims after a New Year's Eve hotel party. Adam Randy Baker, 25, was found guilty by a jury of one felony count each of second degree murder and attempted murder with a sentencing enhancement for the personal use of a deadly weapon. Baker faces a maximum sentence of 23 years to life in state prison at his sentencing Feb. 8, 2013.

Around 2 a.m. on Jan. 1, 2011, Baker was sitting on a bench near the valet parking area at the Hilton Hotel in Costa Mesa after attending a New Year's Eve party at the hotel. When a group of men exited the hotel, Baker flicked his cigarette at them and started a verbal argument as he approached one of the men. Another man in the group, 27-year-old Robert Sickles, stepped in between his brother and the defendant to prevent the situation from escalating into a fight.

Baker approached Sickles and began a physical fight by shoving the victim's face with his hand. Baker then pulled out a knife, slashed Sickles across the chest, and stabbed him once in the chest. Sickles' friend, 26-year-old Brian McTeigue, attempted to intervene to protect his friend and Baker stabbed McTeigue one time in the back.

The victims' friends became involved in the physical fight to defend Sickles and McTeigue and detained Baker. Costa Mesa Police Department officers, who were already at the hotel responding to unrelated disturbances, responded immediately.

Sickles and McTeigue were transported to Western Medical Center, where Sickles was pronounced dead on arrival as a result of the stab wound to the chest. McTeigue was treated for a non-fatal stab wound to the back and was later released. Baker was transported to Mission Hospital to be treated for facial fractures sustained after the stabbing.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 10:46 am
@firefly,
Quote:
Nothing like welcoming in the New Year with another mass shooting
.

ATLANTA (CBS ATLANTA) - A man kicked out of a New Year's Eve party early Tuesday has been arrested after going on a stabbing rampage.

Officers said Luke Odonodan, 19, and Andrew Mainor were involved in an altercation and Odonodan was asked to leave the home on Gibson Street.

Odonodan returned around 3:30 a.m. with what appeared to be a knife and stabbed Mainor.

Others tried to subdue Odonodan, at which time he began stabbing all of them.

A woman called 911 as she attempted to drive several victims of the stabbing to an area hospital.

Two people sustained stab wounds to the abdominal and leg areas which left both semi-conscious at the time.

During the scuffle, Odonodan was cut on his lower back.

All together, three victims were taken to Atlanta Medical Center, one of which was in critical but stable condition. A fourth was taken to Emory University Hospital Midtown. There were a total of six people injured.

Odonodan was charged with five counts of aggravated assault while at the hospital.

Copyright 2013 WGCL-TV (Meredith Corporation). All rights reserved.

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 10:49 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
In the UK 3 people are hospitalised, in the USA 26 people are killed. Can you spot the difference?


So you think that knife wounds can not killed as well of gun wounds?

That a knife can not cut major organs or major blood vessels and cause deaths in the same manner as a bullet???????
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 11:04 am
@BillRM,
You really are stupid. If the nutcase had been armed with a gun, those three people would be dead.

If, as you claim, knives are just as effective as guns, why do the World's armed forces go to all the expense of carrying guns instead of battling away with knives?
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 11:12 am
@izzythepush,
He's trying to make a silly case that keeps sinking the more he presents it.
He also tried it with Louiville Sluggers,and explosives.

BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 11:26 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
You really are stupid. If the nutcase had been armed with a gun, those three people would be dead.


Off hand the killing abilities of firearms compared to knives from the below chart is not all that greater at least not so must greater that I would feel better being stab then shot.

Or that would back up your claims that the people would had been killed if victims of shootings instead of knivings.

As far as military the Romans in one day lost over 50,000 men on the battlefield by edge weapons in it battles with Carthage.

At long range firearms in wonderful in killings however within 15 feet the knife and the firearm are on roughly equal terms.


http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/ZimringReduceKillings.htm


NUMBER OF NON-FATAL ATTACKS AND HOMICIDES WITH KNIVES AND FIREARMS RECORDED BY POLICE: CHICAGO, 1965-67


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non-Fatal Attacks Homicides


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1965
Knives 5,285 104

Firearms 1,298 195


1966
Knives 5,230 152

Firearms 1,873 265


1967
Knives 5,612 135

Firearms 2,412 317


Total
Knives 16,127 391

Firearms 5,583 777


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Page 729]

BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 11:39 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
He's trying to make a silly case that keeps sinking the more he presents it.
He also tried it with Louiville Sluggers,and explosives.


I find it interesting Farmerman that when you are ask over and over and over whether you yourself given your knowledge and access to materials could not take out a large percents of the children in any given school without firearms you will not answer.

Could it be if you would address this issue the honest answer would be that you yourself likely could do so.

Leading to the interesting further question that given that most mass killers have been of above average intellect and education why could they not do the same.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 11:52 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Leading to the interesting further question that given that most mass killers have been of above average intellect and education why could they not do the same.


I think it is because they want to experience it happening and see it first hand "I think they get off on it.

There are others such as suicide bombers and so forth but that's a different story.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 12:50 pm
@BillRM,
So an incident where 2 people died is exactly the same result as an incident where nobody died. You live in an interesting world Bill.
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 01:20 pm
@parados,
Quote:
So an incident where 2 people died is exactly the same result as an incident where nobody died. You live in an interesting world Bill.


Yes, it is the same when people are serous harmed and only luck or lack of luck decided that one attacked by gun resulted in deaths and one attacked by knife did not.

It could had been reverse as people die every damn day all over the world due to knives attacks including over 20 school children over the last few years in China.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/14/china-knife-attack-school.html

in 2010 that killed nearly 20 and wounded more than 50. The most recent such attack took place in August, when a knife-wielding man broke into a middle school in the southern city of Nanchang and stabbed two students before fleeing.

Most of the attackers have been mentally disturbed men involved in personal disputes or unable to adjust to the rapid pace of social change in China, underscoring grave weaknesses in the antiquated Chinese medical system's ability to diagnose and treat psychiatric illness.

In one of the worst incidents, a man described as an unemployed, middle-aged doctor killed eight children with a knife in March 2010 to vent his anger over a thwarted romantic relationship.
Joe Nation
 
  3  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 02:05 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
You really are stupid. If the nutcase had been armed with a gun, those three people would be dead.


Off hand the killing abilities of firearms compared to knives from the below chart is not all that greater at least not so must greater that I would feel better being stab then shot.

Or that would back up your claims that the people would had been killed if victims of shootings instead of knivings.

As far as military the Romans in one day lost over 50,000 men on the battlefield by edge weapons in it battles with Carthage.

At long range firearms in wonderful in killings however within 15 feet the knife and the firearm are on roughly equal terms.


http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/ZimringReduceKillings.htm


NUMBER OF NON-FATAL ATTACKS AND HOMICIDES WITH KNIVES AND FIREARMS RECORDED BY POLICE: CHICAGO, 1965-67


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non-Fatal Attacks Homicides


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1965
Knives 5,285 104

Firearms 1,298 195


1966
Knives 5,230 152

Firearms 1,873 265


1967
Knives 5,612 135

Firearms 2,412 317


Total
Knives 16,127 391

Firearms 5,583 777


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



[Page 729]




Could we see the number of FATAL ATTACKS Knives/Guns??? Please.

Just curious as to the ratio of knife attacks/fatalities as opposed to gun attacks/fatalities..... .

Anybody got any guesses as to which weapon is the more lethal???

Joe(I do.)Nation
BillRM
 
  0  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 02:35 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Just curious as to the ratio of knife attacks/fatalities as opposed to gun attacks/fatalities..... .

Anybody got any guesses as to which weapon is the more lethal???


In the table the first numbers is the attacks and the second number is the deaths and by that information in the city of Chicago in the 1960s firearms are more deadly by factor of very roughly four. In any case you can do the math from those two numbers.

Of course nothing is ever that simple as for example are the average knives attacks design to be deadly to the same degree as a firearm attacks and the types of knives and the training of the knife wielders all come into the picture.

Given a combat type knife and someone with some training I do not see why it would not be as deadly as a firearm in tight quarters.
parados
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 04:10 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Yes, it is the same when people are serous harmed and only luck or lack of luck decided that one attacked by gun resulted in deaths and one attacked by knife did not.

It's luck? Your reality sure is different from everyone elses. I'll tell you what Bill. For a million dollars I'll let you stab me once with a knife and I'll shoot you once with an assault rifle. The one that dies loses the bet.
parados
 
  2  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 04:15 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Given a combat type knife and someone with some training I do not see why it would not be as deadly as a firearm in tight quarters.

Someone with training can be deadly with a knife but a 4 year old can be deadly with a gun.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/20121206minnesota-boy-shoots-kills-year-old-brother.html

Why don't you find me an article of a 4 year old accidentally knifing someone and that person dies.

Heck, here's another child shooting someone this month.
http://www.drudge.com/news/164190/boy-shoots-kills-brother-christmas

And another instance of a child shooting another child.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2010/07/boy_accidentally_shoots_kills.html

I guess parents are more careful with their knives because I can't find any story of a kid under 10 accidentally killing anyone with a knife.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Tue 1 Jan, 2013 04:23 pm
@Joe Nation,
IDK

The amount of times my fiance has to sharpen his knives in a month and often he forgets as well until we need to use them, suggests the blunt truth I think.
 

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